In our return from our mini-break, we chat with Northwestern graduate and aspiring film maker Rey Tang. Co-hosts Tulsa Douglas and Luisa Neves also answer our first listener question of all time!
This episode, Share the Air talks with Rey Tang. She tells us about her experience captaining a college team during the pandemic, and she also reflects upon the difficulties that college teams face going forward. Rey also talks about inclusivity in college programs, and specifically mentions the relationships between A and B teams, and between men's and women's programs. Finally, Rey and Luisa discuss the Asian American community within ultimate. Tulsa and Luisa also answer our first listener question about the recent Supreme Court ruling regarding student athletes having the chance to make money.
Share the Air is hosted by Tulsa Douglas and Luisa Neves. It is planned, edited, and produced by Tulsa Douglas, Luisa Neves, and Tim Bobrowski. Share the Air's music is by Grey Devlin and Christopher Hernandez. Share the Air is sponsored by the National Ultimate Training Camp, VC Ultimate, and the Centre for Applied Neuroscience.
Luisa: [00:00:00]
Hello everyone. Welcome come back to the second half of season one of Share the Air. We had a much needed break and we hope that you all have had a nice vacation as well. We're recording this on a Friday and last night, Tulsa actually got to do something super fun, a really cool part of vacation.
And she went to the, uh, U.S. Women's national team game versus Mexico last night, I think in Connecticut?
Tulsa: Yeah in Hartford.
Luisa: Yeah. So I had, I walked to a friend's house to watch the game and was hit in that downpour, which when I got to her apartment and saw the game on the screen saw the absolute torrential rain that was happening there, you were caught in the middle of it. I saw the pan to the stands a couple of times, and
Tulsa: Did me?
Luisa: Were just. We didn't see you, but that honestly could just be because
Tulsa: Everyone was wearing a raincoat. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Luisa: Yeah, how was it? It [00:01:00] looked, it was a good game. It was
Tulsa: It was, yeah, it was super fun. I mean, four goals. Always fun to watch and Tobin Heath scored that goal. She must've been in for, I
Luisa: 30
Tulsa: of like 20 seconds and scored a goal and it was beautiful and amazing. It was so much fun and it poured rain the whole time. I think it started, it was raining when I got there and then it started pouring about 10 minutes and then just like non-stop, but it was 70 degrees, so it was warm and we were just all kind of soggy together and it went by so fast.
And yeah. There were 21,000 people there, which is like kind of overwhelming, you know, coming back from a year of not being with even close to that many people, but it was great to have so many people and everyone was like super excited. I don't know. It was just really fun to be back in, in a crowd with people cheering on amazing women.
Yeah. it was overall a fantastic experience Lou, what are you, what did you do? What are you up to this weekend? [00:02:00]
Luisa: I did over the break was, I played a lot of ultimate, which was a crazy, coming, I think this was like the, some of the few first times that I played ultimate in like a year and a half, maybe more. I attended Gridlock practice, which was super fun. The team looks really good. I'm super excited for the season.
Tulsa: Yeah, our roster just dropped.
Luisa: Our roster did just drop, go check it out, So, uh, yeah, and I got to play with some of those new people this weekend, and that was, that was really fun. What else did I do. As much of a break from Share the Air as it was, it still required a little bit of, a little bit of editing and behind the scenes work.
So it wasn't, it wasn't a true break, but, enough of one,
Tulsa: And now that our break is over, we're really excited to get back to the rest of the season. And we're launching a Share the Air swag raffle to welcome back all of our listeners. So you can share our posts on your social [00:03:00] media to be entered into the raffle. And you might win a piece of Share the Air swag.
There'll be more details coming on Monday, July 5th on our social media channels.
Luisa: Cool. So make sure you're following Share the Air so you can stay up to date on that.
These are the same pieces of apparel that our Patreon supporters have a chance to win as well.
Tulsa: And speaking of our Patreon supporters, we have a listener question, our very first one from David J.
Okay. So David writes, "with the recent Supreme court ruling, I think it's fair to assume we will see students making money off of endorsements and their likeness within the next few years. So my question is, do you think student athletes should be paid? And if so, how do you think it should be done?"
Lu do you want to start?
Luisa: Yeah, so for a bit of context, traditionally student athletes, athletes playing in college, uh, do not get paid. There's like this amateur status that's associated with them. And very recently there was a Supreme court ruling that is now allowing college [00:04:00] athletes, student athletes, to make money off things like their likeness, their brand.
I think the explosion of social media and now even with tick-tock, a lot of these college athletes are becoming like small celebrities in their own right. But up until very recently, they haven't been able to make any money of any work that they do. And a lot of them, people like on social media, brand work is a lot of work.
There's like whole businesses dedicated to making money for influencers and celebrities and things like that. So student athletes or college athletes who like, are very popular and to have this like sort of celebrity status have been doing really similar work and haven't been able to make any money off of it because of this like NCAA ruling that college athletes can't be paid for their work. There's other compensations that arguments have been made for in the past, like often student athletes get some sort of a scholarship, if not like a full ride, [00:05:00] there's different amenities they get, but often it's not even a full ride and there's of course still other things that folks need to pay for.
Tulsa: And I think Lou, can you explain where the money does go if the student athletes it? Because it's a big money-making industry.
Luisa: Yeah, totally. A lot of this money that is being generated by TV contracts by, merch sales,
Like all of these sorts
Tulsa: Corporate sponsorships
Luisa: Yeah. All of these
the millions and millions, if not billions of dollars they produce, a lot of them go not to the student athletes who are doing a lot of this work, but to folks like the NCAA board members, conferencing executives, um, folks, coaches.
Yeah. more often than not, these folks are also white people. So, and I, I looked up a couple of [00:06:00] numbers, I think in 2019, head of the NCAA pulled in something, it was like $3 million or something in that sort of ballpark range. Um,
Tulsa: I read that, coaches are the highest paid public employees in 39 states.
Luisa: So there it's a huge business. There's so much money in it. And a lot of it goes to the big, the big, what do you call it? The fat cats at the top. Don't know what the word is for that. A lot of this money doesn't go to the actual student athletes whose faces are being used, whose names are being used to generate this money.
Tulsa: Yeah, it wouldn't exist without the athletes.
Luisa: So with that, there has been this new, this recent ruling that college athletes should be allowed to make money off of their likeness.
Tulsa: I believe that there's two parts. So student athletes can receive education related payments up to $6,000 a [00:07:00] year, and then they can receive as many non-cash education benefits as they want.
Luisa: So student athletes are going to start, taking advantage of this and they're going to be, you know, I already saw a couple of student athletes on Tik TOK to be like, I'm dropping merch. Like I'm dropping merch with my name, sorta thing. Cause they do, they have enormous followings on, on social media.
But to go back to David's question, should student athletes be paid and how should that be done? I think there's been many arguments why they should be paid and why they shouldn't be paid. In researching some of those arguments, I have to say that a number of the, they shouldn't be paid is bullshit. One of the ones, one of the ones I saw for why they shouldn't be paid is that it removes a love of the game. Just, can you imagine saying that to any pro athlete now, like if I pay you for this, [00:08:00] if I pay you for the hours that you spend in the gym that you hours you spend taking care of your mind and body, hours of press conferences and whatever else, I pay you for that work, your not going to enjoy the game anymore.
Tulsa: Ugh. I mean, like they wouldn't be at this level if they didn't enjoy playing the game.
Luisa: Exactly. So looked, I researched a little bit more and, some of the arguments that I found for why they should be paid really resonate. As we just mentioned, it takes like this one. It's a ton of labor. It's a ton of, training. You spend hours doing it every single day, day in and day out.
Tulsa: There are injury risks associated with that, that can be career ending, life-long.
Luisa: Yeah. I, I, I know that it's very common that if you get an injury that essentially removes you from playing [00:09:00] for a season, a college can take away your scholarship. And if we're looking at, students who come from disenfranchised areas or low income backgrounds who relied on their sport to be able to send them to this school, and now an injury happens of their control and that scholarship gets taken away, then they can no longer attend. Not even just have the sports experience, but also get the education that they, were also at the school for. So paying them, I think paying a student would help alleviate some of those things.
On top of that, I saw that if it, a student athlete has suspense, like all the time that they do in the gym training, with the team, focusing on sport and preparing for the sport, they don't have time to things like take a second job, because they're spending all of that time preparing for the sport, which is work.
So paying them for that time and that effort [00:10:00] would do the same. Uh, Tulsa, what were some that you had seen or, or things that you had learned.
Tulsa: I know that very few college athletes actually go on to make money professionally. I didn't quite know the numbers. So, college football players, only 1.6% go on to make money. And 1.2% of college basketball players go on to get drafted in professional leagues.
So it's like a very small number of college players that go on to actually make any money in the future from playing their sports. So basically they're giving away their time and their effort in college to these schools that profit off of them. I think another big piece of this is that the majority of student athletes in especially basketball and football in in which the biggest ad money in sponsorships comes in, the majority of those athletes are black and brown people and there's the, it adds this where it's like, okay, we're, [00:11:00] if schools are taking the labor of these individuals and profiting off of it and not paying them, like completely exploiting them.
And, and the majority of these athletes are black and brown, then it's just like super exploitative. So in, in thinking about all these reasons of why we should pay athletes, what do you think about how that would happen, how we go about doing that.
Luisa: Um, well, I think number one, we kind of just mentioned the enormous amounts of money that board members and executives pull in. I think that with the amounts of money that they pull in, starting there is, is a good, is a good start in terms of how to actually come up with this money. These are, these are like billions of dollars, that, that go in and out of these businesses. All on the backs of student athletes who don't get any compensation. The perks that schools [00:12:00] provide in terms of yes, a scholarship, but like free books and, know, gym perks like that's, at the end of the day, that's, that's all bullshit that doesn't last.
It doesn't actually give any sort of long-term value to student athletes, and especially, student athletes who are, black and brown folks. To have very rich white people making millions of dollars off of their labor is just flat out wrong. So I think starting with sorts of executives and the money that they pull in in order to keep student athletes super limited what they do is one place to find money.
Tulsa: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Is there anything else we want to say before we wrap up? In summary, pay the athletes, take it from those white dudes at the top.
Luisa: Yeah. [00:13:00] No. I think that, I think that says it all. I think that in Share the Air's spirit of learning, if any listeners want add more to this conversation, please drop us a note, like at our email, at our social, on Patreon. We'll, we'll take a look and include it, in a future episode.
Um, we're all about continuing conversations here at Share the Air.
Tulsa: Yeah. And thank you to David for this question. we really enjoyed talking about it and learning more about it. If you'd like, just submit a question for us to answer. You can become a patron at patreon.com/sharetheair.
Luisa: Cool! And now we'll get into our conversation with Rey Tang.
Tulsa: We're excited to introduce today's guest Rey Tang. Rey began playing ultimate at Watchung Hills high school in New Jersey. [00:14:00] During her first year of college at Northwestern Rey played with NUT Northwestern men's ultimate team. Ray most recently, captain and played for claw Northwestern women's ultimate team.
Rey is a writer, filmmaker and director studying film, TV, radio, economics, and computer science at Northwestern. Rey graduated this spring and dreams of writing for TV one day. Rey welcome to Share the Air.
Rey Tang: Yay. Thanks for having me.
Tulsa: So I think it would be great to start with you talking about how you got into ultimate and yeah. How you got into ultimate?
Rey Tang: Sure I got into ultimate because I didn't make the fall play. And I was, that was the devastating end to my acting career. But, we had a frisbee program at the high school and I realized that all my friends are going there. And so I wanted to join them as well. But it was crazy becauseI went to Watchung Hills where we had a huge, frisbee program already in [00:15:00] place. And, I realized that I really, I was hesitant to go at first, I think because all my friends are going and I was like, I wanted to be against the crowd, but at a certain point, I'm like, you know, this acting thing isn't panning out, I'd have nothing to do for fall. So I went to my first practice and I really haven't looked back since. Okay.
Tulsa: So then going into college? Did you know you wanted to keep playing ultimate and then what was that transition like?
Rey Tang: Oh God, I did not want to play ultimate in college. Um, I was so burned out.Weird to think about now, but senior year of high school, I was like, wow, I made high school nationals with my team, I guess this is the peak of ultimate, I don't know what I was thinking. I was like, yeah, like I'm like washed up now. I should just retire, it made no sense. But I think there's a little bit of thinking that like, oh my God, will I find community at Northwestern? And again, I think the answer throughout my like frisbee playing experience has been that the people brought me back. The Northwestern community [00:16:00] was just so kind the women's and men's programs were so integrated, in a way that I've never seen before. And it was, it was bliss. It was just so much fun.
Tulsa: Did you connect with ultimate people first, and then you, they dragged you to a practice or something? Or did you just decide to go to a practice? How did that happen?
Rey Tang: So at the start of the school year, we have these big scrimmages on Deering, which is our library. Like the main, like when you see a postcard Northwestern, you normally see that or the Lakeview. And, I remember like thinking like, okay, I can't just not go, I've played for years. I shouldmess around. And I talked to some folks there, it was really great. I really felt like I was making connections, it was just so supportive. Cause like, you know, this house is co-ed our programs are so integrated. It was just so amazing to see. And then that made me really want to come back.
Luisa: So you went from being a, oh, quote unquote, washed up national high school champion to now still playing at the end of [00:17:00] your senior year and captaining your team.
Rey Tang: Yeah, I wouldn't say high school champion, I definitely was carried a bit to go to high school nationals, but, um, yeah, it's it was, I mean, it's just been a long journey. And this has happened. I mean, I switched programs. I learned a lot about what kind of player wants to be and sort of thinking about how, in what ways I want to grow as a player and how to make sure that people aren't excluded.
I don't know. There's there's like, for sure, a lot of learning and growing that had to happen in my four years here.
Tulsa: Are there any specific things that you can share, like as a player, what were some of those things that you feel like you've improved on or developed over the four years?
Rey Tang: So a good example of this would be like A team B team. That kind of structure that college teams have. When I came in, at least I would think oh yeah, you want to like separate off the higher level players, because then they havehigher level competition. You want to give the younger players, more opportunities to grow. And so that's why there's a B team. I guess, I didn't really [00:18:00] realize at the beginning was that that creates a level of exclusion that it could sometimes hinder the progress of younger players rather than help. Cause there's just a lot of passing on knowledge that happens if you integrate those practices. And even then like A team B team, like higher level is so relative and subjective what does that even mean? And so, we weren't able to implement this year because of COVID, but and because the fact that we don't have a B-team cause COVID like, why would we separate? But, we were hoping to implement a little more A team B team, like mixed practicing, even throughout the regular season. That was something I think about a lot is how do you grow and how do you, and do you need exclusion to necessarily like grow in that regard? Do you have to be the little fish in a big pond? Could you sometimes be that big fish in the little pond, and then also help people grow along the way. That was a very weird convoluted metaphor, but hopefully that makes sense.
Luisa: No, it totally makes sense. And there's like, definitely something that I know that I felt in college. And I think still a hundred percent happens at the club level. And it's like not A and B team obviously, but you have those tiers [00:19:00] of, skill and competition that people seek out. And so, yeah, I think that, discussion definitely still happens. Even at the club level, it's, it's a really difficult one.
Okay.
Tulsa: Yeah. Yeah. I think it's interesting to think about okay, what is your goal in having A and B teams, because in general, the goal is to get more people to be able to play, but yeah. What is your goal then in how you divide who's on which team? I think that's a really important point of like, how do you then use the knowledge and skills on both teams and cross share those?
Rey Tang: Yeah. It's complicated. I did a research project last summer about the history of our program, like the Northwestern women's program specifically. And one part of that was figuring out, how the B team was founded. And there was a lot of just learning, and understanding how there was an era I think it was like 2010 that B teams were popping up all over throughout the country. Frisbee was becoming a bigger sport. And it really did feel like that B teams were formed because of a numbers game, we had too many [00:20:00] people on the A team, so we needed to house them somewhere and they were also not getting playing time. So the B team seemed like the logical step, but it was difficult because I think, when the B team is formed because of like a numbers issue, there needs to also be intentionality with what you want to do with the program. And that was something that I observed while looking at the situation and yeah, admittedly, like, I am definitely still learning on this front. I'm I was not a B team player, when I entered college. And I definitely made mistakes in that regard of thinking too much in terms of A team and not in terms of B team. And it's just a very hard thing to do, especially if you're on one side or the other, like, it's just hard to think about the other team's perspective and it really shouldn't be a separated program like that.
Luisa: I think the important thing is the intention behind it all that you just mentioned, and I think something that's probably extra hard for college teams is that you have to have that constant intention of okay, what do, what is this program about? How do these two teams, if they're [00:21:00] separate, how do they integrate? And I think probably something that's difficult for college teams is like every four years you have a new group of people anyway. So you kind of have to like, those people have to figure out what's best for them and maybe the existing system, wasn't it.
Tulsa: Why do you think, you mentioned that the men's and women's programs are like really well connected. Do you have any sense of what it is that helps keep your programs connected?
Rey Tang: Full disclosure, it's funny answering this question because I actually, primarily my playing experience is the men's side. Like I had played for Claw, previously Gung-ho, for two years, but you know, pandemic, so I've only actually played for six months. So my, thinking here, it might be kind of filtered, but I think just looking at the history, I mean, when Claw was just starting as Goatee back in 1998, The members of the men's team, I think they were called vomit monkeys back then they would, yeah, I know it's gross, [00:22:00] the captains and leadership would actually go to the women's practices, help teach them skills and like support them along the way. And so I think in the very start, there was an intentionality, like our founder of the program for the women's team was a previous player on the men's team who realized and wantedmore playing opportunities. But the mentotally supported her on that front.I'm sure there was some drama along the way. Like, don't want to paint like a perfect picture, but, I think that level of support, I mean, just like, there's been a lot of comradery between both programs. And then I think about, I think it's in 2004 that the house was established. I mean, we've had this house for like 17 years I, yeah. And it's always been co-ed. And our programs, while I think, you know, it wasn't like a perfect story of oh, we were always in harmony, but this has really just is like an emblem for me, of how close and tight knit the two teams actually are in history and in current programming. And it's something that I sometimes take for granted and I forget that that's unique and that's not something that most teams have. [00:23:00]
Luisa: Share the Air will be right back. But first here's a quick word from our sponsors.
Tulsa: Share the Air is sponsored by the National Ultimate Training Camp located in Western Massachusetts. NUTC is the longest running ultimate sleepover camp in the country. It has also gone international, hosting camps and teaching clinics all over the globe. With the most talented coaches in the world, NUTC is teaching ultimate for the next generation. Learn from the best at NUTC.
Luisa: Share the Air is also sponsored by VC Ultimate. VC has been producing custom uniforms and performance apparel since 1998. A company that proudly puts values and community before profit, VC is the world's best source for quality design and all of your ultimate needs.
Tulsa: So, were you a captain last spring when everything shut down and you got sent home, what has the past year and a half been like as a captain?
[00:24:00] Yeah.
Rey Tang: Uh yeah, no, I really a lot of points. I was so burnt out. I would tell my co-captains, I was like, I really regret taking this captainship. I felt so, what's I don't even have the right words. Like I just joined this program. I wanted to captain, because I knew that I wanted to create inclusive spaces. That was something that I cared about. Jury's out on if I was able to do that, I hope so. But, I definitely tried my best. In terms of captaining during COVID, it was really rough because we had to do virtual practices. Did you guys, do you guys do virtual practices? Cause it kinda sucks.
Tulsa: Yeah. Yeah. I helped coach Northeastern women's, the Valkyries past. Yeah. So I signed up to help coach January of 2020, and I got two months in person and nothing. And then we did virtual practices starting, I think in November or something. And we did them all the way until just a couple of weeks ago. [00:25:00] And they're really hard. And we had three coaches who were helping plan and run them. And you know, the captains were still doing a ton of stuff. So, and like, even as a coach, it was hard to get feel like I'm like keeping people engaged and doing Frisbee relevant stuff, but making it fun, it was hard. And I was just coaching.
Rey Tang: Oh yeah. And also we lost to you guys so many times!
Tulsa: Sorry.
Rey Tang: Oh, you're fine. Truly some of the funnest games ever. Uh, no, I mean, it's so hard. Like how can you, there's not much you can do with the Zoom whiteboard.
Tulsa: Yeah.
Rey Tang: It's rough. I think the worst part of it all was just feeling like we were robbed in a weird way. This was my first, I never played out a full season, on the women's team. For me, like my transition, playing on a women's team was like, this embodiment of what womanhood meant for me at least in that immediate moment. And so, yeah, I felt like that was robbed from me. I remember, when we found out all, everything was getting canceled, I was having dreams about it cause I [00:26:00] was just so it was just so on my mind. I was weirdly grieving. Um, now I'm okay. I went through the five stages. But it was, it was really tough there for a moment,thinking about how we never get to do it. I I never get to experience what college women's really isespecially at regionals and, you know, sectionals, regionals, fingers-crossed nationals, but, yeah, that was really difficult.
Luisa: That's I think a really difficult thing. And I think something that is great that we're talking to, you about a college player. I think that's a really huge thing that we like maybe aren't talking about in our community very much. I think we're talking about like, how do we set up a new nationals so that like people can have this experience and stuff. And I don't know that there has been a lot of talk about a lot of the grief that a lot of college players went through in terms of losing their seasons. You only get those what four to five years to begin with and then to have one taken, it's really, really hard. Yeah. Basically two. Yeah. And so it's, I mean, it's great to [00:27:00] hear your, your perspective on it.
Tulsa: And it's great that the, you know, they're working to have other playing opportunities this fall, and also it's not feasible for everyone to be able to just drop everything and play a series in the fall after they graduate. Yeah.
Rey Tang: Yeah. I don't know. I don't even know if I'm able to make that series. I don't think a lot of my teammates can, so it's, yeah. I mean, this is a it's, it's a great attempt at a solution, it's just like, I just don't know if it will go through for our team. I really hope so. I'm, you know, I'm gonna stay optimistic. That's my, that's my goal.
Tulsa: Yeah, yeah.
Then there's the other whole piece of it, which I've heard some people talking about is like, how do programs move forward? Because I don't know about you, but I think at Northeastern, we had one, maybe a couple more freshmen joined this year, but it was hard to recruit new players and hard to bring them into a virtual season. So it's, it's also kind of sad, scary to think about [00:28:00] how much work captains and programs are going to have to do to kind of try and like regrow for future years.
Rey Tang: Oh yeah. That's been, that's been top of mind for sure. I mean once my year leaves, really the only players who've had even a general experience or working knowledge of how the season works is the year below me. And that's a lot of pressure to put on them. And yeah, there's a loss of knowledge that's happening. I mean, there's the, the reassuring thing is everyone's going through it. So, levels, so competition at Regionals is going to be scaled. Uh, I think actually that's so interesting that you brought up recruitment. I'm really sorry to hear that it was difficult, because I think we've gotten like, very lucky with the freshmen that did show up cause we've had in-person practices recently and we were able to return to play with under Northwestern guidelines. And that was kind of huge. That kind of reaffirmed my belief that for these nice, I like Frisbee, but also, [00:29:00] these newcomers are so talented. Why has everyone played in high school or captained a high school college? It's kind of bogus. But I think for me, I was so like, I felt so reassured, in a weird way like, I'm like, oh, they're going to be fine. These are such talented. They're kind people. I think it's going to suck for a bit recovering, but I think they're good. I think the players are going to come out just fine.I mean just the level of talent that's coming in is just unreal.
Tulsa: Yeah. That's a good reminder. That's good. That gives me some hope.
Rey Tang: Yeah. They'll rebuild.
Tulsa: Yeah. Yeah.
Luisa: What about your other schoolwork and being a college student in the pandemic?
Rey Tang: Yeah, it was a lot I mean it just impeded everything. Everything was so much heavier. I'm a film student. So I had to film my senior thesis this past year and we had serious, serious COVID restrictions onset and I mean, we were filming a party scene with 9 people. And that like, it was [00:30:00] so painful. It was a 13 hour set. I cannot believe that that happened. I felt so bad for everyone involved. I was like, I will never write a party scene again. Um, but on top of like the tiredness though, there is a level of so ready to get back to normal that a couple of film members were just so ready to like jump on it. And it was just so lovely. And also it helped that the people were just some of the best humans on earth. It was an all women crew looking back, which is kind of crazy. And that was not intentional, it just sort of happened that way. There were a lot of queer people on set. There were a lot of Asian-American women on set. It was just a really great place. And it was just so fun to hang with these people. I really formed the memories that I don't think I'm going to forget.
Luisa: It sounds like community was another big piece of for you.
Rey Tang: Yeah.
Tulsa: Can you tell us a little bit about what your film is about?
Rey Tang: Yeah. It's called Emergence. So it is about a trans athlete actually, who is kind of trying to [00:31:00] figure out her own identity and she encounters another human who is bi and who's just coming out and like figuring out her own sexuality. And they're sort of together able to understand each other in themselves more and sort of grow as people. And that's a very big logline, but it sort of is what it is. It's more like a character study of how did these two people, how do queer people build community? How do we like bond? What is it like just to live in a queer body? And that was something that really fascinated me, especially just cause you know, the story's not about the traditional narrative of a trans person'sfinding out oh, I'm trans, it's very much about, living with that, it's about locker rooms, it's about like spaces and how to interact in those. And the differences and like the other characters a cis queer women and there's a whole dialogue sequence about princesses and how that means different things for different people. Like for trans women, that's very empowering, like, oh my God I could to explore my femininity whereas for cis women and that's oppressive,
Luisa: Yeah,
Rey Tang: patriarchal heteronormative, et cetera. so it's just funny how somethings need completely different, [00:32:00] interpretations.
Luisa: Wow. I think there's something really attractive about queer stories that are not about justbeing queer or discovering that you're queer. And I know that, coming out stories, we didn't even have that to start how many years ago. So like, yes, course that's so important. but there is something really appealing about getting to hear the stories that CIS and straight people hear all the time. And then we get to hear it from our own perspective and with our own voice. And I think that's really appealing to like, hear what, maybe other groups now feel is boring or mundane or overdone. And it's like, well, I've never seen that done for me. I would love to tell it in my own way. So that totally sounds like what your, piece is about and is really, really cool.
Rey Tang: Yeah, yeah,
Luisa: Sweet. so what are your goals for your film work afterwards? I know you have this [00:33:00] piece premiering. Is it completely part of your major and requirements or does something else come of it?
Rey Tang: Sure. Yeah. With this film, it's going to get submitted to festivals. And, yeah, in terms of career, honestly, like I'm trying to stay in Chicago. I want to be making art for sure. But I also want to live life for a bit, like, I don't know what womanhood is, outside of college slash outside of pandemic life. I want to be able to breathe for a second before, you know, going LA becoming a cog in the machine and et cetera, et cetera. But yeah, for now, I just want to, I just want to live for a little bit. Seeing, hearing, reading you on Being Ulti was, the first I had heard of you, I guess, and you, I think did such an incredible job on Being Ulti the way you took people's questions and answered them.
Luisa: It was just like, it, I mean, it made for really fantastic reads, but it was also incredibly like, well laid out [00:34:00] and it was really cool and I learned a lot and you're incredibly well-spoken.Did you, sorry to do all of that to you just now. Uh, what did you, what did you get from that week? Like how was that experience, on Being Ulti?
Rey Tang: Very draining and filled with anxiety, actually. I was so nervous that I was so nervous I was going to say the wrong thing, because I think you know, if it's in conversation like here, you can correct me and then I will learn and it'll be better. But on a public platform, I was realizing you could cause harm by saying something wrong.
And that was like, I mean, I think I started off the week by saying something like, I am not perfect so, please keep me accountable. Which I think always holds true. But in that case, in particular, I just knew that like I was just so worried about hurting people along the way. I, I remember it was like anxiously calling my sister and she's like, you should just speak from your own experiences.
And that was something that I really tried to do throughout the week with making sure that I was [00:35:00] only really at speaking for myself. I want to advocate for my community, but I can't speak for other people. It's just not my place. And so yeah, that was really helpful. So thanks Yvonne.
Um, out of that week, I definitely feel like, I got a lot of great friends out of it. I learned a lot, I think, along the way of how to interact with people and learning more about how to tweet, I guess.
But, most importantly I think I just, I was just so thankful for the opportunity to kind put that, all that out there. There was a thread in particular that was me kind of relating some like stuff that happened in 2019, that was really difficult for me. And it was definitely part of my healing process.
Like I felt lighter after sending those tweets, it felt like, oh, I was, I could make this into something useful. And that was, was a great feeling, especially with all these anti-trans bills that are coming out. That was, yeah, it just felt really good to be able to do something for once.
Tulsa: So I know you Rey from NUTC and from 99 [00:36:00] Days.And I know when you're on 99 Days, and then also being something that I found was really valuable, it was like you sharing your story and your experience of a specific incident and like getting an insight into what that experience was like for you.
And I imagine that that's probably draining, like you said, and like very emotionally vulnerable soI appreciate you saying that and putting that out there and being willing to help people learn through your experience.
Rey Tang: Thanks. I hope it helps. I don't, yeah. I don't know how people receive, but I hope it helps.
Luisa: I mean, I learned a lot from your, threads and your answers on Being Ulti, but, one thing that like really resonated to me was when you were talking about your Asian American identity and figuring that out and stuff, and I know that at one point you like put out a tweet for resources and stuff, which was super cool.
I think in one of, one of those tweets, you like mentioned,stuff about the [00:37:00] model minority myth, and that was super cool for me. I actually, both. And does a lot of trainings and they ran an Asian-American, diaspora workshop, back in, the summer of last year. And it was so cool I was in a room with a bunch of other Asian folks, mixed race folks,
and we were all just like unpacking our identities. And I think that's one of the really crazy things that I've learned in the past year is like, one person could be Chinese and one person can be Filipino and one person could be Japanese. And it's like coming from super different cultures and all of us had some sort of story or experience, related to our identity that resonated with somebody else. And when you were a lot of your stuff on Being Ulti, it's a little bit different, but I had stuff that really resonated for me and it was like really, really cool and stuff like, terms, even like model minority.
That was like the first [00:38:00] time I had heard that term in that class and I was like, oh my gosh, my brain is just opening up to like all of the stuff that I've felt for so long, but had no words to put for it. So yeah, I like, w did you learn anything else this week about your, or that week? I should say about your, Asian American identity?
Rey Tang: It's, it's crazy. Cause like, I think that week, especially when Saturday rolled around, I don't know why I segmented like this, but I was like, I'm going to talk about being Asian today.
That was like sort of how my brain worked and what was crazy was not like what happened during that week, but after where, Lily Guconnected with me. She reached out. She was like, it'd be cool to hang. Cause I was asking her a lot for like, advice about some tweets just to make sure that was okay. And so we hung out and like what you were saying about like being in that circle ofoh my God, like you did that.
I like totally relate.Well Lily's, Lily's Shanghainese.I'm also Shanghainese, and that's very much where we, like, we suddenly were [00:39:00] like, your mom does that too? You feel like you need to please everyone all the time as well? We were just like, it was like a weird freak out session of like, whoa, like just bouncing back and forth and me, like, we are very similar and it's just like, I just, yeah, I didn't realize that.
I think also the reason why we have that experience is because like being Asian American is so invisible for me. at a certain point I'm like, okay, Asian American being Asian American is almost just you're not white. That's very much how, if you'll sometimes, and you eat bomb food. But, that's what it was like for me, it was like the other day I was watching, I was rewatching like old, Chinese TV. And like, I was like, this is weird that this is a whole world that exists within me that I don't seem to like, have the proper amount of reflection on.
And so that isdefinitely something that I'm working on in the future is thinking like, oh my God, I'm also Asian-American. And I kind of have to embrace that part of myself, cause it's cause it's awesome. Great food again, but [00:40:00] yeah, it's part of me and I love being uh Shanghainese and Chinese American.
Luisa: Yeah, totally. At least personally, my mom moved here from Guam, when in med school. And so I I definitely, for a very long time, didn't have a ton of other Filipino family around and I certainly didn't have any Filipino friends.
There's just like either I grew up in a pretty white community. So what you're saying about being Asian American has sometimes just felt like I'm not white. that super, super resonates with me. And so when I like joined Bent for the first time and there was multiple, Asian American women and another Filipino person was like so exciting.
And now is one of my closest friends. And we like even have like our own little Filipino family and calling each of us, cousin or something like that. it's, it's just so [00:41:00] so fascinating, like this bond, but this is like what Frisbee, like, I wouldn't have met these people if I didn't play Frisbee.
Um, it's not like I, I have any of these connections, at work or in anything else. So yeah. Frisbee has done some, some super cool stuff in terms of helping me figure out my sexual identity and my racial identity.It's really wild.
Rey Tang: A hundred percent. Yeah, it's really cool. It'sit's funny. It's like the first time I've ever, one of the big draws of it was, it was the first time I've seen that many Asian American people in a sport. And I was like, that's, that's, that's just something I never seen before. And that was really exciting.
Luisa: Yeah.
And now Share the Air will take a quick break to talk about today's teachable moment. These are brought to you by our sponsor, the Centre for Applied Neuroscience.
Tulsa: This week's teachable moment is about visualization. Visualization is a powerful [00:42:00] mental skill that the brain can use to enhance performance. It's a practice that you and your brain can do off the field, and it's known to improve a variety of in-the-game skills, like basketball free-throws, soccer penalty kicks, gymnastics routines, and likely many elements of ultimate.
Luisa: Basic visualization involves closing your eyes and imagining yourself doing a specific skill, like running an offensive play, laying out with good form or practicing a throw. When you're visualizing, you're activating many of the same areas of the brain that you would activate, if you were actually doing that thing in real life.
Tulsa: The reason that visualization is so powerful is that from your brain's perspective, you are doing a skill, and the more the brain practices something, the more automatic it becomes. Just like practicing a play or a throw over and over again on the field, it gets easier. The same thing happens when you practice in your brain using visualization.
Luisa: Tulsa, I know you've done stuff with visualization before. What's your personal experience with it?
Tulsa: I use visualization for a bunch of different reasons, but [00:43:00] one specifically, I like to visualize when I have a specific throw that I'm working on. Last season, I was struggling with a specific forehand in a certain situation. And I was using visualization to help picture myself doing the throw and executing it in the way that I wanted it to happen. Because I was having trouble doing it physically, I was able to picture it in my brain and run through it, how I wanted it to come out and that helped me be able to do it in real life. So visualization is legitimate practice time for a brain and it can be used for all kinds of performances.
Luisa: Thanks to our sponsor, Dr. Mandy Wintink and the Centre for Applied Neuroscience for this teachable moment. Head to www.knowyourbrain.ca and see what courses they have to teach you more about your brain. If you mentioned you heard about them here on Share the Air, you'll get a 5% discount off course fees, and they'll also donate 5% back to Share the [00:44:00]
[IXA]
What do you maybe hope is next for the ultimate community at large? And it can just be like your college community. It could be your club community.
Rey Tang: Yeah.
?
I think in the barriers of, you know, financial accessibility, racial justice, LGBTQ plus acceptance, I think the biggest thing is just to make sure that the conversation continues. maybe my standards are very low, but my hope isit doesn't fizzle out anytime soon that we continue to talk of like, how do we continue to push for better spaces for everybody?
Yeah, I think that's most important right now.
Tulsa: Yeah, I think that's interesting. And if this isn't what you're getting at, then let me know. But I wonder if there's a piece of like the past year plus we haven't been playing organized ultimate, so there's been a lot more time and energy around like conversations of what we want to change. And I personally am feeling a little like, okay, when we go back to playing [00:45:00] ultimate, are we just gonna go back to the way things were or are we actually thinking critically about carrying the things we've talked about wanting to change into our return to play?
Rey Tang: Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's definitely part of it. I mean, that piece is always there. It's just like, now that we're, we can put these things into practice. Are we, are we going to answer that call? And I think also another part of what I was, I've also been thinking about recently is how to practice activism, sustainability, how to practice activism sustainably.
and that's something that I struggle with, for sure. Like getting immediately burnt out. It's the reasons why, like, I sometimes like leave social media or just like, don't think about stuff for awhile. It's too much if you want to take on the world at once, you have to take it on and pieces and yeah.
And just like Being Ulti, while it was like such a great experience, it was honestly one of the most draining weeks of my life. It was a full time job. I was also had classes on top of it. That was awful, but it was very much thinking like I could only do [00:46:00] that because it was a week.
I couldn't have done that for like a Like that was, that was just not possible.
Tulsa: Yeah. I I've been thinking about that too. So I just finished reading the book Emergent Strategy and and there's a, there's a chunk in there where she talks about pleasure activism and wanting activism to be joyful. And if we're doing activism in a way where it's, it's, it's not joyful, it's not energizing, then it's going to be hard and it's going to be a slog and it's going to be something that's hard to do sustainably. So that's something I've been thinking about. I don't have answers yet, but I've been trying to think about how to, how to do activism sustainably and in a joyful way.
Rey Tang: Yeah. Yeah, because if you can't put your best work in otherwise. Yeah. Yeah. I I'm struggling. I don't know if you guys have any advice.
Luisa: I also read Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Maree, Maree [00:47:00] Brown. She's the author. And I mean, if you're looking for answers, I think that book is really great. It sets forth a lot of frameworks that things like, I hadn't thought about it. I'm not saying that this book is also all of the answers. It's one person's thoughts. But something that she does talk a lot about in her book is about community. And, how important community is for bouncing ideas back and forth, for finding people who can hold you accountable for finding people who can pick you up when you're tired, for finding people who can like step forward while you've stepped back, if you need. I think that's one of the solutions I've reflected on is, community is so important. Community is the thing that makes us energized and like excited to work for the people in our community and make the lives of the people in our community better. That's my first attempt at solutions is what's your community for you? And what can you do for your [00:48:00] community? What can your community help you out with?
Tulsa: So another question we have for you is if there's any message that you want to share with the ultimate community,
Rey Tang: One of the things I wrote on a thread was, thinking about how to make this place better than you found it. I think that's just something that I'd like to, ask everyone is just like, how do you plan on doing that? Because I think that's something that, something I think about quite a bit.
Yeah.
Tulsa: Yeah, I like that.
Luisa: I love that reflection.
Rey Tang: Yep.
Tulsa: We can do our game?
Yes,
Luisa: let's do the game!
Rey Tang: Well Woah, game.
Tulsa: Okay.
So our game is called Ten Second Stall. we have a series of questions. And for each question, you'll have 10 seconds from when we start saying the [00:49:00] question to when you have to answer, but the why it's called 10 Second Stall is because if you hit 10 seconds, we'll say stall, you get stalled out.
Rey Tang: Okay. So I have 10 seconds to answer your question or 10?
Tulsa: So the clock starts as soon as we start saying the question.
Luisa: Yeah, no, we suck up two of your seconds. really it's stall eight,
Tulsa: seconds. Yeah. It's like stall,
Rey Tang: Sounds good. I've also been playing many, so I feel pretty good about this eight, second
stall Let's
Tulsa: Perfect.
Rey Tang: Yep. Sound good to me.
Tulsa: Okay. . Lou I'll start. Okay.
What teammate do you want on the line with you?
Rey Tang: Cat
Chen
Okay
Luisa: Who is the hardest matchup you've ever had?
Rey Tang: Oh my God, Emily Barrett I think from Ohio State.
Tulsa: What's the best tournament.
Rey Tang: Oh, uh, no, let's go,
Luisa: Favorite post tournament meal.
Rey Tang: Chinese buffet.
Tulsa: If you can only have one throw what throw do you pick. [00:50:00]
Rey Tang: A low release flick.
Luisa: Favorite play you've ever made.
Rey Tang: Just recently I, uh, hucked it. And then I went up line. I caught it for a score.
Tulsa: Nice. I think that's one of the hardest questions. Good job. What's a TV show recommendation.
Rey Tang: Creek.
Luisa: Someone you're grateful for?
Rey Tang: Cat Chen
Luisa: Your most used emoji?
Rey Tang: Uh, the one that's like a cute face with like teary eyes. I don't know.
Luisa: We've gotten that answer like two times now people have that
Rey Tang: It's my energy. Okay.
Tulsa: What's the best compliment you've ever received.
Rey Tang: Oh, some guy walked up to me on the Lakeville the other day just said, oh, you're beautiful by the way. And then biked away.
Tulsa: Yeah, you did it. No stalls.
Rey Tang: Oh my god.
Luisa: Yeah,
Rey Tang: I mean [00:51:00] of them. So is that cheating? best
Tulsa: friend
is no no
Rey Tang: Gotcha.
Luisa: You nailed it.
Tulsa: Yeah.
Rey Tang: Thanks. appreciate
Luisa: Well, Ray thank thank thank you so much for being on the show with us. It was really awesome to learn more about you. Thanks for sharing.
Rey Tang: No, thank you both for having me. This is such an honor, to be in the presence of such great players. And also this is so much fun. Thank you so much.
Luisa: Totally
Tulsa: thanks so much to Rey for coming on Share the air. We wanted to give you a quick update on what Rey has been up to, since we recorded this interview. She's playing for EMU, Evanston Mixed Ultimate this summer, and professionally is now working at Camera Ambassador while interning at the Annoyance Theater on the side. Good luck to Rey.
Luisa: As a reminder for what we talked about at the top of the episode, we're doing a raffle for some amazing VC Ultimate Share the Air gear. Check out our social media accounts on Monday, July 5th, to [00:52:00] participate in the challenge and you'll have a chance to win some fresh swag.
Thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time. If you like the podcast and want to support us, here are a few things that you can do.
Tulsa: You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at sharetheairpodcast and on Twitter sharetheairpod.
Luisa: You can also rate and review us, and most importantly, subscribe to our podcasts wherever you listen.
Tulsa: Lastly, if you want to get in touch with us, you can email us at team@sharetheairpodcast.com. We'd love to hear from you.
Share the Air is hosted by Tulsa Douglas and Luisa Neves. It's produced and edited by Tulsa Douglas, Luisa Neves, and Tim Bobrowski.
Luisa: Share the Air's music is by Grey Devlin and Christopher Hernandez. Thanks again to our sponsors, NUTC and VC Ultimate.
Tulsa: Speaking of our Patreon supporters, we have a listener question. Our very first one.
[00:53:00] Luisa: do I want you to say yay. You said or J, but. I'm sorry, you can record that again, or I can just say yay. And we can splice it in.
Tulsa: or we can use, use my half laughing. Um, no, we can, we can splice. Uh, okay.