This week, we chat with local organizer, friendly neighbor, and cat enthusiast Khunsa Amin. Co-hosted by Tulsa Douglas and Luisa Neves.
This episode, Share the Air talks with Khunsa Amin. She shares her experience in and around the NYC ultimate scene, including culture-building with her mixed team, Turnstyle; administration with PUL's New York Gridlock Ultimate; and organizing at the youth and adult levels with DiscNY. Khunsa also shares a plethora of anti-oppressive practices while describing her work at Both/And and in her local neighborhood.
This week, Share the Air also launches our Patreon! Check it out for bonus episodes, chances to get VC Ultimate and Share the Air swag, and mental resilience consultations with legendary coach, Tiina Booth.
Share the Air is hosted by Tulsa Douglas and Luisa Neves. It is planned, edited, and produced by Tulsa Douglas, Luisa Neves, and Tim Bobrowski. Share the Air's music is by Grey Devlin and Christopher Hernandez. Share the Air is sponsored by the National Ultimate Training Camp and VC Ultimate.
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Luisa: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the fourth episode of Share the Air. To all you fantastic listeners, thank you so much for your support, engagement, and feedback. Many of it has exceeded our expectations and makes us excited to bring you more of these conversations. Please continue to show your support by leaving us a review on Apple Podcasts and sharing this podcast with your friends, families, and pod workout buddies.
Tulsa: And for everyone that's interested, we now have a new way for you to support us and that's Patreon. So Patreon is a platform that allows people like us, smaller content creators to, have people be able to subscribe to our work and help cover some of the costs of the things that we're doing.
Luisa: The reason why we think it's important to start Patreon is while our podcast does have a couple of production expenses. The biggest thing is that we want to make sure that we compensate our guests. We're asking them to come on our show and share their stories, not only with us, but with all of you. And we think it's really important that they get paid for both their time and their experiences.
Tulsa: And the second piece is that we have more we want to share with you. So we have some bonus episodes of content that we weren't able to fit into the published episodes. And then we have some extra add ons, including, some deals on VC gear, one of our sponsors, and some mental toughness training work with Tiina Booth, who runs NUTC, one of our other sponsors. So there's a lot of exciting stuff that we are going to add on in our Patreon.
Luisa: Yup. So you can support us and get access to these bonus episodes and other content by becoming a patron at patreon.com/sharetheair. And now let's jump into this week's conversation.
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Tulsa: Today Share the Air is talking with Khunsa Amin. Khunsa has a degree in physics from George Mason University and has been playing ultimate for seven years. Most recently she's played with New York City's mixed team Turnstyle. Khunsa also contributes many of her efforts to the wider New York City ultimate community, working with the Premier Ultimate League's New York Gridlock as a consultant, and as a volunteer with Disc New York. Currently Khunsa works with Both/And, a social justice collective that facilitates anti-oppression education through workshops, trainings, and teach ins. Khunsa, thanks for joining us today.
Khunsa Amin: Sounds solid.
Luisa: So Khunsa how did you get started playing ultimate and what's your ultimate journey kind of been up until this point?
Khunsa Amin: Yeah, I guess the typical ish story of I've found ultimate in college, fell in love with more so the community aspect of it, and I don't know, it was kind of like a stable anchor so that when I was basically quote unquote, uprooting my life and moving to New York city, I just knew that there was another community to rely on and immediately plug into. So far I've pretty much stayed in mixed. I played women's and college. Might try again to play women's, maybe the season, the season after, I have my own things I'm wrestling with in terms of the ultimate community.
Tulsa: So you mentioned that it's been the community that has kind of kept you into ultimate at what point in your time in ultimate did you notice this is something that's probably going to be a large part of my life going forward?
Khunsa Amin: I think definitely when I moved to New York, it was harder for me to feel that sense of community in college. In college things feel a little bit more fast paced and urgent. There's goals and things that you want to achieve as a team before these seniors graduate. so that in conjunction with dealing with mental health things, there was just not a good overlap of really being able to rely on the community while I was in college. And then when I came here and to New York City and found the leagues through Disc New York club teams , it was just like a completely different community and scene and I don't know if that just is a Testament to the amorphousness or like lack of ending to club ultimate, and leagues and things. So there was just a little bit more reliance and feeling more supported in the community. And that's, I guess when I was like, okay, yeah, this could be a thing I could do for as long as my knees and ankles support me.
Tulsa: Yeah.
Luisa: Was Turnstyle the first team that you played with when you moved to New York?
Khunsa Amin: It was. Yeah. I think when I moved to New York, it was way after tryouts had already happened. And then I just, well, one, I love the color purple and then just, pretty laid back. Attitude was fun to be in. And there was just like a lot of, I think room for tweaks, maybe? So a lot of the things that I was coming to terms with in terms of DEI and ultimate, it was like a space where I had some room to like, explore that within the team culture as well.
Tulsa: I'm super curious about that. Personally, I think it can be challenging to be a new person in a new community, on a new team and figure out when and which things and how to bring that up. So I'm wondering what your experience was like with that. And if there are any things you learned in the process.
Khunsa Amin: I would say like the first season that I played with them, it was more so like getting to know the people and the atmosphere, and then more so getting involved with Disc New York and their efforts, and starting up the equity committee and helping them do some events, which kind of like organically snowballed into the next season. Being able to try out some of these things.
Tulsa: Were there any barriers that you ran into or any challenges of things you wanted to tweak, but somebody said no or something?
Khunsa Amin: Not that I can recall, which was amazing.
Tulsa: That's great.
Khunsa Amin: I guess that I had, I don't know, it was, it was nice that I was able to do the things that I wanted to do without much barrier or obstacles.
Tulsa: Are there any off the top of your head that jump out of like, this is something I'm proud of, or this is a change I want other teams or organizations to make?
Khunsa Amin: I think I was pretty happy with the culture that we had cultivated outside the binaries, especially for mixed, can be challenging. So just being able to have folks that were open and willing to listen and learn about, beyond the gender binary was something I'm pretty happy with.
Luisa: This week's episode with Jenna Weiner, we talked with her a lot about, re-imagining parts of mixed, parts of the mixed game, but also even just re-imagining or revisiting language and, all sorts of language around binaries like that. And, if one thing works now, then, we might still need to revisit it later to evolve it further. And I know that you've gotten some of that work with, with DiscNY and with New York Gridlock. So, yeah, it's very, very similar stuff. So you came to New York City, you started playing with Turnstyle and also fairly quickly started working with DiscNY?
Khunsa Amin: Yeah, I think I started volunteering with them before I actually started playing in the leagues, which is probably reversed. But at that time I was having sort of my own journey through the landscape of DEI, I have joked that if I could talk to my younger self, I would tell her to just skip the whole Western feminist phase and just arrive at where I am right now. But, yeah, DiscNY provided me with an opportunity to just be sort of an outlet to explore some of those things that were happening at the same time for me in my life.
Luisa: What were some of the first things that you started with DiscNY? Cause I know that even your role there has definitely shifted.
Khunsa Amin: I think the first thing I ever really got involved with was the Food Frisbee Feminism event. And that left a really lasting impression on me. I dunno, it was just a very nice introduction to the culture of New York City ultimate. And just seeing all these people gather, which, you know, right now it gives me panicky anxiety. I'm like, how can we gather? But just seeing so many people gather to discuss things about Frisbee that were taking into account, the whole person was I'm just at loss for adjectives. And it like really made me interested in getting involved more. And I think around this time was also when there were other conversations happening around the gender equity movement and the exclusion of race and class discussions within that. So there was that transformation happening. And I had just moved from the, I guess, WAFC jurisdiction. And they had also started up an equity committee and that was something that sparked the idea for DiscNY to do something similar, and just how quickly and welcoming they were and allowing me to help out with the Food Frisbee Feminism event. I just felt like, okay, I can like speak this into the aether and maybe something will come out of it.
Luisa: It sounds like even just the opportunity to engage in these sorts of conversations was really interesting to you. Were there individuals in particular that also really pulled you into the space or made it really enjoyable?
Khunsa Amin: Hmm. I'm going to give a shout out to Bkap.
Luisa: Cool.
Tulsa: Brittany Kaplan.
Khunsa Amin: Yes, Brittany Kaplan was I think one of the first people that I was gripped by. I think at the same time or some overlap, she was doing The Sky Is Red stuff and that project was just so very amazing. But to answer that question in a long way around Bkap was one of those people, who really, I felt supported by, in starting some of these new endeavors. She's just a rad human being.
Luisa: Yeah, I definitely agree. I think she was one of two people who like really helped start me on my own, learning journey around gender and identity. So with DiscNY, I know that this last year has been really weird. But, what's your most recent work with DiscNY looked like?
Khunsa Amin: I haven't really done any volunteer work with DiscNY as of recent, I did a couple of workshops through the DiscNY equity committee. that's actually how I met Zara Cadoux and found my way into Both/And, and also got to start a pretty rad summer camp and just loved working with kids. And also it was a time where I learned about the limitations of how far volunteerism can take an organization and at that time it was increasingly at the expense of volunteers of color. And we had a very open and honest conversation with the board at the time which led to some transformation and the makeup of the board structure. I know they're doing an organizational overhaul now and I've just been really happy to see all of those changes. And I just have found, I don't have the capacity and bandwidth to volunteer like I previously did. I think it's just one of the things that just has to go hand in hand with nonprofit structures and overwhelmingly and Frisbee, it is a very volunteer oriented sport. And at one point in my life I had bandwidth for it, but now I don't, but I'm happy to support the rad human beings that are on the board right now.
Tulsa: I'm just wondering if Khunsa, so maybe you can spell out for people who maybe haven't thought about that, the volunteers and the culture and, and how that plays out for different people.
Khunsa Amin: Okay. Yeah. There's larger conversations to be had around how Frisbee is a predominantly white community, which is why we're able to, I think like sustain that volunteer culture because with whiteness comes, class privilege, privilege afforded to you by your race, perceptions of society. And that generally puts you in a category where you have some bandwidth at some point in time to be able to do these things. And the case is not the same for everybody else. So I would say for like black and brown folks, you have daily existing, and then also like the added layer of okay, I have to Wade through these various systemic oppressions and that limits your capacity more and more, in the case of DiscNY specifically it is, I guess sort of a blessing that there are so many, passionate players of color in the community who care about, ultimate as a sport and wanting it to be more inclusive and more radical. And when you come up against the, the bandwidth and capacity issue, you have these folks that care so much in a way that they have to care because. There are some facets of they're thriving in life. That depends on it. And then you have white folks who still have the bandwidth and capacity. And, because of that, you can have this volunteer culture sustained without recognizing that there is extra input from black and brown players, players of color that is going uncompensated. And that's how we're just kind of stuck in this little cycle. Unfortunately at the expensive players of color.
Tulsa: I think that's helpful context and background for people.
Luisa: What was the reason to start a youth summer camp?
Khunsa Amin: That was a time where I was going through a lot of, observations and noticings around youth outreach and ultimate, and having conversations around accessibility of the sport, how we're showing up in spaces. And, that was just one avenue. It seemed to me that, could be a space where kids can enter in an accessible manner. So we did a lot of things. To try to make the space as inclusive as possible. So we tried like sliding scale fee structure. If kids needed cleats, we had, donated cleats from players. We were also utilizing the New York city summer lunch programs of kids needed to get food or not be able to bring it with them. That's also something that was taken care of. We tried to make it as least expense oriented as possible. And I think for the most part, that was a goal that we did achieve. I still do think that the summer camp is a way for kids to have a accessible entryway into ultimate, larger things to be set around, continued support of kids and how we like plugged them in and what culture are we plugging them into? Is there a continuity to the accessibility? Because there's just so many barriers, do they need to, I don't know. Do they have access to nearby transportation? Is that a barrier? But yeah, at that same time, I think like going through the summer camp experience also helps me, Have larger realizations around how we want to be continuing to support kids and how we sort of show up in these communities and with what attitude. I did have a lot of learnings, I think in that process of sort of like the overall orientation of youth outreach . Being like, you know, the kids are our future, which is great. And that phrasing always struck me as weird and uncomfortable, because it's ignoring the current conditions and reality of the space, and pushing it on to the next generation, which does not address, the harm being done currently. Doesn't address the needs for the BIPOC players in the space and, it just like is a continuation of the same patterns, because if we just keep pushing it when are we actually doing the thing?
Tulsa: Yeah, we do that with climate change too. Yeah.
Luisa: Some of these ideas about, getting more kids and especially kids of color into ultimate and why that's really important, we need to change the landscape of the sport and so let's get more kids of color involved in the sport. But, the idea that we would just, go into schools that, are predominantly filled with kids of color and and bring them our ultimate the way it currently is into those spaces. Yeah. That can, that's like definitely really problematic. Yes, we could be bringing in this really cool organized sports. It has a lot of joy with it, but also we're bringing in a sport that is very white and what you just said just now about that continued accessibility, I have reflected on my college experience. That's where I started ultimate and thinking about Black players who would come to the first few weeks and try it out and some stayed and many left. And I think that just says something about what that kind of default culture for ultimate is. And yeah, setting up these really awesome spaces for kids to, to play ultimate in and to like, get that first experience, but if the community that they would then go to afterwards isn't as welcoming or accessible.
Khunsa Amin: Yeah. And I think that accessibility thing really stuck out to me is because one of the quote, unquote, selling points of ultimate is like, you just need a disc and a couple of friends. And it's like, yes and no, that is not it. There are there like a lot of layers that go into a person showing up into a park space, with all the things that they need that will keep them from hurting themselves. And then also just like continued access to if they do get hurt, do they have the benefit of going to a hospital and not ending up bankrupt? Because our medical system is...
Luisa: Trash.
Khunsa Amin: Trash. That's, PG word. Like, oh, there's a long list of words. I just went through. But yeah, I think it's like a lot of these preconceived notion and also I feel like ultimate players have a really hard time accepting rejection if of their sport. Another thing that, was also alerting was sort of the cultural aspect of sports as well. At that point I was going to a lot of panels and stuff to hear from people who are doing organizing around sports equity worldwide to connect to sort of that global liberation piece. And it was really eye opening to really think on the idea of the culture that you are trying to do these things in. And are you like coming in and trying to assert and show your dominance with your sport? Trying to display something that's already existing and that community, was I think the thing that helped me develop my lens for seeing youth outreach currently as really very colonial and missionary-esque because we kind of really do just preach about it. We pop into spaces, do the thing. And then leave.
Tulsa: I'm really curious about your transition from your physics work to now working for Both/And. So I'm wondering if you can explain a little bit about what that move was like. And maybe also describe some of Both/And, and I think explain the name of Both/And because I love it. And I love the concept of both the end and I think it's, another like mind opening thing for people to hear about.
Khunsa Amin: Yeah. We definitely geeked on that name change. Um, yeah, so physics to where I am now. Good question. My journey into physics was because I had like a very inspiring teacher who just exuded love for the science. And that just led me into doing physics as a degree in the college and a lot to be said about institutions and how they really, really destroy whatever passion you came in with. But that's actually also where I first initially started to get into equity work because just the disparity of women in sciences is such a, I dunno, existing problem. Like we've talked about it for so long and it still continues to be thing. But yeah, after that I graduated, came here and worked at, a mathematic slab at NYU with. Such a rad professor. And I don't know, got a, got a paper published. And so after that, I actually taught, at an NYU program for kids from all the five boroughs to prepare them for it. It was like a college readiness program. So I actually taught physics, algebra one, algebra two, which was also great fun, really woke up my love for teaching, especially working with kids. And a lot of these things were happening at the same time I'm having all these other awakenings, which feels like a really weird word to say, but I can't think of another word. Awakenings about the DEI stuff. And one fateful workshop I meet Zara Cadoux, and we sort of hit it off and I don't know, we just, it just sort of happened she just slowly roped me in before I knew what was happening. And then I was in both hand doing things. It also was coinciding with the burnout I was feeling and ultimate, trying to figure out where I really want to be in terms of okay, I love teaching. I am passionate about DEI work. Where is this going to leave me? So I feel pretty blessed. I would say to have found Both/And which still currently is probably my dream job, even though, you know, I'm all about like when you got to take apart capitalism, no such thing as if you do what you love, you'll never work in a work a day in your life. Not true, not true at all. I love what I do and it's still work. But considering everything, just being able to be in my dream space so early in my life, I feel so lucky. And just to be surrounded by the rad human beings and the Both/And collective, with their knowledge and experience, I'm just constantly learning every day. I know Tulsa, you asked about the name Both/And. So Both/And the name of it actually is, one of the things we talk about when we're talking about shifting from, internalize white supremacy, and generally we are conditioned to be thinking in either or binaries, and thinking that, you know, like something has to win out here. There has to be a winning idea, and somebody has to be put down, we encourage folks to deviate from that to think in Both/and, which is being able to like live in the gray and hold the complexities that, you know, we can have the space, to be holding two things to be true at once. Kind of like, basically in the operating of the business, we want to dismantle all of this stuff and we're operating in it. So we kind of also need money and it's just like, okay, we just have to live with the fact that we are participating in capitalism at the same time that we want to bring it down. So yeah, that's, the geeky legacy of the Both/And name, shout out to Hannah Leathers for doing a lot of the design work and logo work for that, which is also so beautiful.
Luisa: Maybe just for listeners who don't really know what Both/And does, could you a little bit of that?
Khunsa Amin: Yeah. Both/And is a collective of educators, facilitators, artists, trainers. Basically a lot of great humans who are doing anti-oppression work through different, variations of teaching or an expression. We've had our journey from moving from equity to anti-racism, to anti-oppression, which we feel best encompasses a lot of the work we want to do, is within the larger sphere of global oppression. Very localized anti racist, work. Yeah, We do a lot of trainings and work with organizations to hopefully not just check a box, try to engage them in some longterm, lifelong learning. Basically our end goal is to shift material conditions for black and brown folks, to not just create a space where people are like, okay, I'm now in this mode of learning, we want to be able to also push those folks into action and be able to plug in somewhere, so that collectively we are able to change things.
Tulsa: I think it reminds me of something that you mentioned earlier about, I think you were talking about the DiscNY board and kind of. Alternatives to a hierarchical leadership structures. And this is something that I've been thinking about with my team Brute Squad, and we've always run with a captain structure two or three captains who kind of make most of the decisions and then share it with the team. And we're trying to think creatively about different ways to include more or everyone's voices and do you have any thoughts or ideas for teams that are trying to figure out some type of alternative leadership structure.
Khunsa Amin: You're in luck. I do have thoughts. Actually, it goes back to the piece of trying to do these, justice oriented liberation oriented things in a very oppressive society. So like the thing you just talked about with Brute Squad, what came to my mind immediately was yeah, you want to prioritize relationships and building up that community. And at the same time, one of the facets of white supremacy is urgency. And it is counter to slowing down and building relationships. It really is a lot of trial and error to find that sweet spot where you can exist in the system and still try to do a thing that is aligned with your values. I haven't really found a structure per se, that could be helpful. I utilize pod structures, as a way to sort of delineate leadership a little bit. So it could be in the form of working groups, based on interest. And then everybody sends a representative back to some main, pod do final hashing out in discussions and like, whoever goes back to that main structure can be somebody new from the circle each time so that everybody gets their time in. And that is a structure that is one I've thought about in theory. And it means that people have to be fully bought into it and invested.
Tulsa: Right. I think the piece that you shared about kind of butting heads with the, what you say? The urgency? The urgency. Yeah. I think is a great reminder. And I think there's also a piece where it's like, we have that sense of urgency because there's a season and there is a national championship. And then there's this piece of winning. And if our focus is winning, what other things come at costs of this drive to win. So those are a lot of things I've been thinking about. And I think the trial and error pieces is really helpful to hear because I think it can feel like, okay, we're going to try something new this year. And if it, you know, quote unquote fails, whatever failing means, what can we still learn from it? And what can we try again the next year? And just because it doesn't work out perfectly, it doesn't mean we have to completely ditch it and go back to our old way or try something completely. different. So that's helpful to hear. Thank you. Yeah.
Luisa: I think personally have spent the last year really trying to unpack a lot of those things that I've learned either through Both/And or through other places about like, a lot of this language, especially a around, those tenants almost of white supremacy and two really big ones are that urgency piece, as well as like power hoarding piece. And I've really been trying to unpack that at least for myself. And something that was really exciting for me about this season, because it's so, weird and nebulous and USAU has given club teams a lot of freedom in terms of some of these deadlines and requirements. I was really excited for, for this year to be a year where we could do exactly what you said, Tulsa. We could try things out and it wouldn't totally matter in terms those outcome results that are so important to us year in and year out. I think that was a, kind of weird, cool, somehow a positive of all of this in this past year was, teams do kind of have a little bit of freedom to try those things out and take some more risks and, if they fail, they fail that's okay. It's just that trying out process. I think that was, a thing that I was certainly, I was kind of like, oh my gosh, we have the opportunity to do that with, this year.
Khunsa Amin: Yeah. I mean, you articulated a quote unquote antidote to one of the facets of white supremacy, which is perfectionism. And to deviate away from that is to really lean into practice. Y'all are, y'all are doing the thing.
Luisa: I'm trying. It's hard. It's hard in sports.
Tulsa: I think it is. I, and I think this is something I thought about with the PUL kind of re-imagining what professional means, but re-imagining traditional sports culture is so hard and I think it's foreign for a lot of people think , We have captains, we have coaches like how could we do anything different? Because every team does that. And I think the re-imagining piece is helpful and challenging at the same time.
Khunsa Amin: Yeah. One thing I would say to that piece is continue to amplify the most marginalized in the sport because they will most undoubtedly have the most creative solutions, to things they've been navigating for a long time. And also don't make them your token person. A balance.
Luisa: Yep. Both/And.
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Luisa: Share the Air will be right back. But first here's a quick word from our sponsors.
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Tulsa: Share the Air is sponsored by the National Ultimate Training Camp located in Western Massachusetts. NUTC is the longest running ultimate sleepover camp in the country. It has also gone international, hosting camps and teaching clinics all over the globe. With the most talented coaches in the world, NUTC is teaching ultimate for the next generation. Learn from the best at NUTC.
Luisa: Share the Air is also sponsored by VC Ultimate. VC has been producing custom uniforms and performance apparel since 1998. A company that proudly puts values and community before profit, VC is the world's best source for quality design and all of your ultimate needs.
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Luisa: I wanted to get to the piece about organizing I don't really know where to start, so I don't even know what exactly the question to ask would be. And so, maybe you could just explain some of the organizing that you currently do. And then I'll find that first question
Khunsa Amin: Okay. Yeah, organizing. It's something I'm really passionate about and it's a space where I've come to in terms of I don't know where I can have the most personal impact in relationship to my identities and risk assessment. And I feel very strongly that everybody should be involved in some form of local organizing and that it should be something sustained in everybody's lives. So some of the things that I've been doing, especially over the past year has been being really involved with my local mutual aid group, which has of course had its own learnings about a lot of things to be said about mutual aid groups that rose up in the height of the pandemic. And again, what are the identities of the people that are leading them, who also have the most bandwidth. I'll give you a hint. It was predominantly white people. And there were a lot of good things to be done through these mutual aid groups. A lot of pushing was done, I would say internally, to challenge sort of the charity mindset that was ingrained in mutual aid groups. The idea of mutual aid and itself is centered around redistribution of resources, so that every person in the community has what they need to not only just survive but thrive. And a lot of these mutual aid systems exist outside the confines of the state, because it can not provide in the ways that all communities need them to. I think the thing that I was most happy about was helping start up a free store in the Clinton Hill neighborhood. That was sort of an experiment in a physical, tangible way to interact with mutual aid, where again had a lot of conversations with a lot of people around charity mindset versus solidarity. And, you know, who was quote unquote deserving. Everybody is deserving. Everybody should have what they need and want. And when I had to move, one of the last things that we had started to tackle was the idea of safety safety for whom. Who is being perceived as the threat in that space. Unfortunately a lot of the challenges we had in setting up a free store had to do with people's perceived ideas around who would coalesce at the store and they would be unhoused folks or people without resources. And it's like, yeah. We want to help them. They need the thing and it's just like, no, it's bad for property values or whatever. And I was just like, why would you say those words?
Tulsa: Can you quickly explain what a free store is for people that don't know?
Khunsa Amin: Yes. It's basically a space where people can give whatever they want with care and intention and take whatever they need. So it's just a structure we set up on a sidewalk , and people donate things there and give things. And we ask people to think with intention instead of just doing a dump, which we've also had people like just dump bags of clothes. But we ask people to consider the question of would you give this to a really close friend? You wouldn't give this stained piece of clothing to your very best friend, then you probably shouldn't drop it up here. So just setting that space up and then gradually evolving into this space where we started to provide some base necessities on a somewhat consistent basis. So a lot of hygiene kits , period kits, or just various needs-based things that were arising. So trying to provide that on a consistent basis as well was the thing that we had developed too. Anyways, would encourage people to start up these free stores in their own little communities. You just need a bookshelf and people to put things in.
Luisa: So you've worked with , this mutual aid in your neighborhood That's one example, I guess, of organizing you've done. What might other examples of organizing be for people who've never really heard this term before.
Khunsa Amin: Yeah. So there's a lot of ways to like, get plugged in these spaces where you're advocating for something or being an ally for a cause or other. First and foremost, something that I do for myself is a risk assessment of like, I have pretty radical views and my identity as a woman of color and more, more impactive as originally an immigrant in this country, sort of limits some of the organizing spaces that I can operate in and still feel safe. So trying to find an organizing home was something that I worked on last year and I ended up at the Justice Committee. So they have done policy advocacy, which is one form of organizing. Trying to collect council members to vote for something or other or informing local communities about these things are about to be voted on. There's an electoral aspect of trying to get progressive people into office. We can talk more about that later. And then there's, the direct action aspect of disrupting oppressive systems. I really encourage people with a lot of privilege to, be tuned into those and plug in when you have the bandwidth and capacity. And then there's also organizing that organizes around and outside sort of the systems, and a lot of that is the community-based stuff, like the mutual aid stuff, work or operate outside, like state forces and other isms. The work we do directly with families at the Justice Committee, those that have been impacted by police brutality and have lost loved ones to police brutality. we work with them to also re-imagine safety. And that has looked like again, working in policy, electing XYZ people to certain positions. The defund movement is also a big one. And then of course, how are we already organizing in our communities and have been especially black and brown communities that have been not calling the police for a very, very long time and finding creative ways to intervene in conflict and violence.
Tulsa: Can you talk a little bit more about electoral organizing specifically?
Khunsa Amin: Yeah. I always encourage people not to put all of their organizing eggs in the electoral basket. If that is your only space of organizing, I ask you to reconsider and find another local org, we're going to go back to both/and um, so I would say, say like, don't make electoral organizing your whole thing and for the people that are involved, it is still important that while we have all these systems up, that we push for, the little incremental change that we can have, to not be satisfied with it and continue to keep pushing for the most radical, policies and changes that will give dignity to all human beings. It's the both/and of recognizing that a lot of the things that we do want in terms of dismantling capitalism and, oppression won't happen without very radical shifts that our current systems can provide. And also, like we have current policies that are impacting people right now, that need to change as well. I think like the barometer for me right now is who's going to defund the police the most. Which also if like you get itchy, when you hear the words defund the police, reimagine it into, who is going to redirect money into our local, social services and communities, and other things like mental health, housing security, et cetera. Like those are also areas that need money. But also if defund the police makes you itchy, I also ask you to think about that and why. For me, it's defunding the police. And if you are a person who is going to do that with the most dollar amount, you are probably at the top of my list.
Luisa: We talked about it a lot, a lot of the things and a lot of the work that you've done, what's next for you with your personal life, with your work, with your ultimate. What's next for you personally?
Khunsa Amin: That is such a good question. I think what's next for me is, I don't know, over the last year, I've spent a lot of time, like thinking because, what else did I have time to do? Around some of the things that I'm really passionate about in terms of the idea of accountability and what it is, around boundary setting and like sustained organizing. And I'm in this space where I'm trying to figure out how to make that accessible for others. And like move my, you know, like move from my current lane in Both/and if foundational DEI stuff to something that is niche to me, and something I'm passionate about where I think I can give the most of myself. And what I feel most passionate about is, organizing and dismantling white supremacy within that. And really just pushing people to normalize, being involved in their communities and doing work in their communities and hopefully not getting a fourth cat.
Luisa: Why is that a hope.
Tulsa: What do you hope is next for the ultimate community?
Khunsa Amin: Um, I have so many hopes and expectations. Yeah. one of the larger questions I've been wrestling with, and I recently worked with an ultimate team where a person like reframed something that was, pretty impactful for me, in that, there's been an exceptionalizing of the pandemic, at the same time that we had or like a realization for a lot of white folks really about, the injustice and in humanity of the policing systems and prisons, and et cetera. At the same time that we had that, we had this pandemic and there's been like this clash of how sustained do I want to be in my involvement in some of these protest spaces and how can we continue to do the work and our teams, and trying to utilize this last year, I've seen like a trend of how can we change our organizations in this space when we have the time to take a deep breath? And at the same time, we're like quote unquote, returning to normal, or back to the old very quickly, and that leaves me feeling icky. So I don't know, really hoping that the ultimate community continues to like examine itself and its culture and takes just as importantly, these larger issues, cultural societal issues, and their involvement and advocacy, just as much as, competition or like team culture building. I just like to frame it as, um, in doing all these things, you're recognizing the full humanity of players of color on your team. Because when you're ignoring these things, these oppressive isms that they come into this space with that weigh heavily on their mind when you're ignoring these things, you're like ignoring a part of that person that you are supposedly building a relationship with. And I just don't think you can really have an authentic relationship without both people fully showing up for themselves. So even if you just want to think of a fit on an interpersonal relational level to think about that piece as well, when considering what is important in terms of building your team.
Tulsa: Okay. Should we play the game?
Luisa: Yes.
Khunsa Amin: Somehow I'm most stressed about the game out of of this.
Tulsa: We will do our best to not make it overly stressful.
Luisa: So the game is called 10 Second Stall, and we are going to ask you just a bunch of questions, kind of hot seat style. There, you have 10 seconds for us to ask the question and for you to answer it, and if you take longer than 10 seconds, we'll very gently yell, stall, try to stall you out.
Khunsa Amin: I'm ready. I think. Probably.
Luisa: Okay. So what teammate do you want on a line with you? Who's your all-time teammate?
Khunsa Amin: Zara and LWoods is actually oh, okay. Yes, that's two.
Tulsa: What's a book podcast or TV show recommendation.
Khunsa Amin: Ooh. I would recommend the Haunting of Hill House and the Haunting of Bly Manor, especially the second one, if you're into kind of Victorian-esque lesbian romances.
Luisa: Khunsa, you just won my heart. I cannot believe you just gave that answer. We're going to talk later. Okay. Um, you can only have one throw. Which throw do you pick.
Khunsa Amin: uh, flick Huck.
Tulsa: What's your favorite Non ultimate hobby.
Khunsa Amin: Fan girling over BTS.
Luisa: Your favorite play that you've ever made?
Khunsa Amin: A kick block.
Tulsa: Nice. So satisfying. What's your current favorite song?
Khunsa Amin: Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. This is it. Does it count if I'm just saying, oh my God, it's a an answer.
Tulsa: find, I think a lot of people find that one to be really hard for some reason. It's like there's too many songs or something. I dunno.
Khunsa Amin: Yeah. It was like, I've listened to this one recently sure, it's not my favorite. I could go like full middle school, emo punk, and just feel like anything by Lincoln Park.
Luisa: Yes, love it. Take it. Pick one burpees, pushups or pull-ups.
Khunsa Amin: Burpees.
Luisa: Wow. That that is a guest favorite.
Tulsa: Who's someone you're grateful for.
Khunsa Amin: I feel like this podcast is semi a love letter to Z. So why not? Zara, I'm so grateful to have you in my life.
Luisa: Which person in your life is the best sideline presence?
Khunsa Amin: I'm thinking of Liz Merritt, Marley Bell, LWoods, also one of them. Basically the whole team that I went to Sunbreak with was beautifully amazing.
Luisa: What's the best compliment you've ever received
Khunsa Amin: I actually have a love, hate relationship with the best compliment, uh, is, I don't know when people are like you're wiser than your age.
Tulsa: That's a good one. Yeah. That's it. That's the game. You did it!
Luisa: That’s 10 Second Stall!
Tulsa: How stressful was it?
Luisa: Well, Khunsa, thank you so much for joining us on Share the Air and sharing not only some of your experiences, but so much knowledge. Thank so much. It's, it's really appreciated that you, you took the time for this.
Khunsa Amin: Thank you all for considering me.
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Luisa: Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. If you like the podcast and want to support us, here are a few things that you can do.
Tulsa: You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook at Share the Air Podcast, and on Twitter @ sharetheairpod. You can also rate and review us, and most importantly, subscribe to our podcasts wherever you listen.
Luisa: And if you want to show more support, or if you just can't get enough of Share the Air, you can check out our Patreon at patreon.com/sharetheair.
Tulsa: Finally, if you want to get in touch with us, you can email us at team@sharetheairpodcast.com. We'd love to hear from you.
Luisa: Thanks so much for listening.
Tulsa: Share the Air is hosted by Tulsa Douglas and Luisa Neves It's produced and edited by Tulsa Douglas, Luisa Neves, and Tim Bobrowski.
Luisa: Share the Air's music is by Grey Devlin and Christopher Hernandez. Thanks again to our sponsors, NUTC and VC Ultimate.
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Khunsa Amin: Trash. That's PG word.