This week we interview ultimate legend Dom Fontenette. Co-hosted by Tulsa Douglas and Luisa Neves.
This episode, we talk with Dom Fontenette about her playing career and recent retirement, her thoughts on leadership, what makes a good teammate and person, what she plans on doing next, and more.
Share the Air is recorded and edited by Tulsa Douglas and Luisa Neves. It is planned and produced by Tulsa Douglas, Luisa Neves, and Tim Bobrowski. This episode's music is by Grey Devlin and Bonus Points. Share the Air is sponsored by the National Ultimate Training Camp and VC Ultimate.
Luisa: Hey everyone. Welcome to Share the Air. We'll hear stories about the identities, issues, and communities that exist within and alongside the ultimate community. I'm Luisa Neves.
Tulsa: And I'm Tulsa Douglas. We'll be talking to ultimate's leaders, game changers, and trailblazers about how they got to where they are today and where they plan on going tomorrow.
This is Share the Air.
Luisa: I honestly thought that was pretty good. That was pretty good.
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Tulsa: Hello, Share the Air fanatics.
Luisa: Friends, fans, and fanatics.
Tulsa: Are fans and fanatics the same thing? I don't know. Anyway. Hello! Hi, Lu.
Luisa: Hey Tulsa.
Tulsa: We're here!
Luisa: We are really doing it.
Tulsa: Yeah, we're excited.
Luisa: I got, uh, quite a few messages on social media of people, either being congrats or asking me questions and so I think that initial curiosity from other people really made it real because we've been talking about it for a long time. I feel like it didn't really happen until this launch and when it happened, it happened!
Tulsa: Yeah. There's no going back because people know -
Luisa: - and people know now.
Tulsa: Yeah.
Luisa: A really good point. Um, you were the one who initially approached me about starting this podcast. So what was your thought process beforehand?
Tulsa: So initially I came up with the idea because I listened to a bunch of podcasts about women's sports in general, and they interview a lot of women in a lot of different sports and talk about their careers.
And I thought it would be really interesting to talk to a lot of ultimate people, both about their careers, but I wanted to get into more than just the athlete on the field and kind of who. ...who else they are as a person and what other things are going on in their lives. Because I think oftentimes we, especially with professional athletes, we just look at them as an athlete.
And it's sometimes easy to forget, like the, the things that they're going through besides just being an athlete. So my goal in my idea for this podcast is to help provide a, a space for more people within and surrounding the ultimate community to share their experiences and their stories and help, provide connections and share new ways of thinking, I guess, with, lots of different people. Yeah.
Luisa: Yeah, I think all those things you just said, those ideas are definitely baked into what I feel is like a lot of the, the missions and the goals that we've set for this podcast. So that is also really cool to be on the other end of three or four months and like, feel that, your initial reflections and reasons for wanting to start. This are like very much baked into, our goals and intentions for the podcast. So that's super cool.
Tulsa: So when I, when I asked you if you wanted to do it with me, what excited you about it?
Luisa: I love storytelling in general and the chance to hear from some really impressive people, some really cool people, people I've looked up to people that I've I want to work with, and people I'd never met before, like the chance to hear their stories is so interesting to me. And I think quite selfishly, when you asked me if I wanted to work with you and co-host with you, that was, that was a piece of it for me is like really selfishly. I get to listen to cool people talk about their cool selves.
Tulsa: Yeah. And ask them all the questions I've wanted to ask.
Luisa: Yeah. It's like, I can't midpoint ask, Dom Fontenette, like what, what she thinks of being on Riot, being a national champion, you know, it just like doesn't, it doesn't happen. So it's really cool we get to make this space for people to. Share their stories and hopefully we do good work and right work to make that space safe for people to share their stories, but the fact that we're like getting to make that space at all is so awesome. So speaking of Dom and my inabilities to ask her questions on the field, our first guest is Dom Fontenette.
Tulsa: We're really excited to talk with Dom and we hope that you all enjoy the first episode. Thank you for being here and joining us.
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Our guest today is Dominique Fontenette. Dom, grew up in Pine Bluff, Arkansas, and started playing ultimate her freshman year at Stanford University. While at Stanford, Dom won a national championship and the Callahan award. Dom has played with a number of club teams, including Fury, Lady Godiva, Brute Squad, and most recently Riot and has won four national club championships and a masters championship. If that's not enough, Dom has also won seven WFDF World Championships in multiple divisions and has been on six U.S. National teams. Dom wrapped up her 26 year playing career this winter, announcing her retirement in a blog post titled "Hindsight". Off the field, Dom is an emergency medicine physician working in Texas and living in the Bay Area. Dom, welcome to the show.
Okay so my first question, Dom, is that you live in the Bay Area and you work in Texas and you were playing for a team in Seattle for a bunch of years. So how did you make all of that work?
Dominique Fontenette: I think you just really have to give everything you have to it, like there were times when I was commuting to play with riot where I knew, because we have a little attendance document and things. I was like, I'm making more practices the locals here. Sometimes, you know, like that, that's the level of dedication that you have to do. And luckily, again, with the thread of ultimate, I chose emergency medicine primarily because it gave me complete flexibility and I could do three shifts, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and then fly up to the practice and make weekend practices. There was a time when I was in New York driving up to play with Brute Squad. And, I would get off of an 11:00 PM shift drive the night show up at the fields and just sleep until morning practice, practice, crash at someone's house practice the next day, get in my car, drive back and, you know, make my shifts and stuff. And they saw that.
Tulsa: So it sounds like it's a lot of years of sacrifice or of in your car and night shifts and it's not all easy. So if you can sum it up or describe it, what is it that has contributed to your motivation to put in all of that extra time and hard work to play with these teams?
Dominique Fontenette: I don't know, man. You tell me.
Tulsa: Yeah.
Dominique Fontenette: I really did. I think it, you know, I think it really does come down to like ultimate and this community has been where I found confidence and I found acceptance and I found all these things that I fed off of for so many years. And now, I mean, up until now, it's been just the norm.
You know, it's been like when you feel good about yourself in an environment you want to be in that environment. now what's made me go through all the sacrifice. I have no idea. I don't really realize what I'm doing until someone else points it out. And they're like, um, that's kind of obsessive or like, maybe... I'll give you an example. That was a little bit painful of an example. Is that, like I've also had that same kind of drive for working, in residency, they kind of beat it into you that you just don't get sick. You don't miss days, because any day you miss is a colleague having to cover for you or, you know, so you just, you push yourself and then you realize how far you can push yourself, but there was a moment where, I lost my mom recently in February and I was scheduled to work and I had a problem. I had a real moment where I was like, I have to go to work.
And then people were like, no, you can actually tell your boss and tell them that you need coverage. And I'm like, no, but I have to go to work. And they're, and they're like, no, no, no, no, no, this was, this is an okay time. But it took, three or four people, you know, insisting that I take those days off and I absolutely needed those days off, but I didn't know it, so I think there's something, there's a drive there. I don't understand about myself, but, I think it's, it's there in a lot of things I do, even, even in relationships, like my girlfriend wants to kill me sometimes she's like, aren't you don't you have enough? Like, go do something else, you know? So I think I have an issue with limits, including my own.
Luisa: I'm very sorry to hear about, the passing of your mother. If you'd like to share a little bit, I'd love to know, how they've encouraged or responded to all of the success you've had in your career and on the field. Is it weird for them to be like, Oh yeah, my, daughter is a national champion of ultimate Frisbee. She's actually one of the best in the world. How have your parents, responded to that and, encouraged it?
Dominique Fontenette: Well I grew up a kid who'd never knew that I couldn't do something. You know what I mean? They've always been really encouraging so, my dad on that side, he's a library director. He's very, stately and he likes orchestra and I want to say he's not what I would call an athletic. We know when I talk about basketball, he thinks something talking about a football team. He has no idea. And, but my mom on the other hand was super competitive and definitely the, the driver of any athletic activity. She, she literally drove me to all my softball practices and my tennis and all this stuff. And so when I won things, I would send the medals to my mom and she would actually frame them. And, I don't care about medal. To me, it's like one more thing I have to carry around and move, you know? But it was kind of like for her, and she loved bragging about the fact that I had won something to her friends, even if it was not a sport that any of her friends had ever heard of. Like, she was excited about saying, Oh, she's in Italy right now, competing, you know, that was the thing for her. So, super supportive parents.
And of course they would have loved if I had come home more, but I think they at baseline just wanted me to be happy. And they knew that that was a place where I found like a big source of happiness. So.
Luisa: We both read your article, hindsight. And I wanted to ask you a little bit about what ultimate has maybe done, in terms of helping you explore your identities and like the intersection of those identities, as a woman, as an athlete, playing sports as a mixed race woman, as a queer woman, in what ways has ultimate or even specific teams or communities within ultimate, how has that either helped or hindered any of those?
Dominique Fontenette: Well, I think that the aspect of how even each team influence having an effect on identity is really, I didn't even think about it. The question that way until you just said it, and that's, that's really insightful. I don't know who I am or who I would be had it not been for the sport of ultimate.
That's just bottom line. That's how big of an impact ultimate the sport and the community is had on my life. so that, to me, it's a it's been a profound effect. from the beginning, I entered the sport with with questions on who am I, I came from pine bluff, Arkansas, where, who I saw myself was I saw myself as someone who, loved learning and exploring and things like that.
But I also saw myself as, someone less than I think even in retrospect, that's more of a perspective, but at the moment I might not have known it, but I definitely had, like, I feel less than my peers who I grew up with because they were, white and privileged or had more money or could get cuter boyfriends at the time, you know, like that, that's kind of like where I came from.
And then when I to Stanford, I all of a sudden saw people, who were a lot more like me. Like they were less concerned about maybe that like social hierarchy of things. And, they appreciated me for me. And even I saw myself as beautiful for the first time, time not even through the eyes of someone else, but just myself in a way, because I could be the color I was, I could be the person I was without needing to, or feeling inferior to someone else.
And I don't know what it is about the culture of ultimate, but it's, it's still there. It's like, people want you to love the sport so much. And I think the people that the sport attracts are the kinds of people who make you feel loved for whoever you are, because I, and I really do think it, that whole like spirit of the game thing, it's like people aren't trying to win at all costs. They're not trying to like. Put you down some way, they're trying to play something for the joy of it.
And that has an effect on others. But I feel like, it's been such a big impact on me that, that I don't know how to put it into words. but as far as like sure through ultimate, it was okay to be who I was and who I was, was someone who liked women.
But that was a place where I felt safe to explore , my sexuality, even though my first girlfriend was not a Frisbee player was actually my sorority. And, and I, I think the only reason I joined the sorority at that time was because I was still holding onto these like feelings from Arkansas of like, this is what you do when you're, you know, trying to be this person, or trying to obtain some status or, you know, you join these sororities. So ironically that's what happened, but, um, it was a place where I felt safe to be me. And I, I felt like I didn't have to act a certain way code shift or, do the things that I had been doing was like a big weight off me and I could just play and enjoy it. And I didn't see, I didn't see color as much as I do now.
You know, like now that there's been this, almost this awareness with, the Floyd case happening right now, this is much more, I've had to educate myself about things and I'm much more aware now than I was back then. Back then, I was just trying to be free and free of any of those thoughts.
Luisa: Those are really awesome thoughts, and thank you for, for sharing them.
Share the air we'll be right back. But first here's a quick word from our sponsors.
Tulsa: Share the Air is sponsored by the National Ultimate Training Camp located in Western Massachusetts. NUTC is the longest running ultimate sleepover camp in the country. It has also gone international, hosting camps and teaching clinics all over the globe. With the most talented coaches in the world, NUTC is teaching ultimate for the next generation. Learn from the best at NUTC.
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Tulsa: In your playing career and in all the different teams you've played on, what other pieces have you valued or find that you need in a team or you need in leaders, or you need to give yourself as a leader.
Dominique Fontenette: Oh man. Well, this is something that I think it really helps is like selflessness. I played on in a lot of scenarios where you get some leaders in there who are very focused on themselves. And when you get that, you get into this kind of a bad spiral of, they start to change the game, change the office of defense for themselves, as opposed to what's best for the team.
And that's hard because they're in power. So, I think that's sometimes where the objective coach helps, but for a long time, I played on teams without coaches. And you had those leaders in, and luckily I've been part of the teams where there's at least a few leaders. So there are some checks and balances there, but that that's something that's selflessness.
And then also leaders who can see beyond the first dimension I think of play. So, when you watch a game, everyone's watching that player who does the layout catch and get something awesome. And you're like, wow, that was great. But a leader needs to see that the reason they did that layout catch, was it because it was a poor angle of a throw and like seeing it three, three passes back, you know, seeing beyond a stat is a good thing, I think, for a leader to be able to do and see how, that player who, they might look silent on the field, but just realize that their, their offensive player never gets the disc. You know, they might not be getting the layout B block is because their player never gets thrown to.
So leaders who can see those things more than just the, wham bams I think are critical.
Tulsa: Do you have any specific people that you have been thinking about when you're talking about that? Like does Molly Goodwin fall in there?
Dominique Fontenette: Oh yeah. She's by far the other person who falls in there as dip cousin, she was my captain for the second world games in 2005. But, another person who falls in as the exact, player that a leader should notice. is Leanne Hoffman, someone might see her and might watch one game and be like, you know, but if you watch a season, she might be catching the disc, but what she's done in her cut has created the space for someone else to catch this. But she's that type of player that needs to be seen by a leadership staff or coaching staff or whatever, as the, one of the most critical glue players on the field.
And we we have a lot of those players on the field. It's just like, who's able to recognize them. Who's able to find roles for young players like yourself, who are coming out of a college program, where they were the one. And now they're on this team of 26, seven people. And if you just like, let them, trickle away, they're gonna fall into this place of, of feeling one, not confident.
So there goes half their playing skills and two, not really knowing where they fit in.
And so you just made me stumble upon another, thing that a leader needs to be able to do is like find roles for, every player on the team. I think Maddie saying, does it really good job of that in his career coaching Fury. And whether that players on the field or not, they seem to know their role and have a role. I mean, maybe not at all times, we all want to know exactly what is my role, but for the most part scouting their team, I can identify that player's role is to do this.
And if it's clear to me, hopefully it's clear to them. So that would be another role as a leader. But yeah, Molly Goodwin just outstanding. She would know what to say at the right time too. You know, we would be falling apart on Godiva.
Someone would be, you know, happening and she's like, you have to do, let's just focus on our defense. I mean, that sounds so nebulous. Right? So it wouldn't stop there. She'd say what we're going to do is we're going to be on our toes and our hands are going to be low. All right, let's get it. Boom. That's it.
So we had something tangible, simple, easy to focus on that we could control. And that might've been a moment when our office was just flying off the rails, you know, but she would just real speck in give us something simple, say it very concisely we'd be done. And that's all we needed.
Tulsa: I love that. That's something that I think I learned from Tiina Booth and that give one thing and give the physical cues of like, yeah, stay on the balls of your feet and keep your hands low. And, it just lets you channel your mental into that instead of into those like, Oh, where am I cutting? Am I going to drop the next pass? Anything that, that makes you unsuccessful. So that's cool to hear that that's the kind of leader Molly was in where that maybe came from. Maybe Tiina learned it from her.
Dominique Fontenette: I wish that I could have a little Molly Goodwin in my ear, the whole time.
The other part is like the cultural side of it, which, um, before I joined the team, they were really into making a team that supported people outside of the realm of Frisbee and made sure that they were, developing people. And I thought that that was really an interesting take the word they were bringing in, people who were trained as not counselors, but trained as, emotional help kind of people.
I don't, I don't know what the right word is, but to help people talk through things like how to listen and how to, respond in ways that are better received than others. And I think that was just like helping the person, but also trying to help the team communicate. So there's a lot of different things going on.
Luisa: That's awesome. Those are like, those are like resources that would be for the whole team, not just the leadership group or whatever?
Dominique Fontenette: Yeah. And exercises before practices where you would break off into small groups and come up with intentions for the day or things like that, to get people mindset focused in each year, it changes, you know, it's not like that every year. and every year someone reads some new book that someone says this works better.
And so it's a work in progress, but those are some of the things that Riot has in place, help organize people and to their roles and being better communicators because we have, well, you know, every team has some personalities and it's really, it's really a challenge to like, because the thing about their personality probably makes them really good at something, you know?
Uh, so you, you don't want to like smoosh that, I think, for me, things like my body language, when we make a bad play, you know, like I have been criticized for, you know, not looking as happy as others when something bad happens on the field and I'm really disappointed, um, but it's true.
Like body language matters. So I have to listen to that. I think that's, that's huge thing is, is like every tennis book you'll ever read is like, don't let them see you sweat because you're giving them the other team energy when they see you upset. So yeah, I don't know. I kind of went on a tangent there, but, but those are some things that are in place.
Tulsa: Yeah.
It sounds really intentional and thoughtful. And it sounds like you all are learning as you go and being willing to try out new things and see what works for you.
Dominique Fontenette: Yeah, I think that that's so critical is like adapting and adjusting. and you don't want to be on that team where it's not like a pendulum of adapting. It's not like, Oh, this happened last, let's go the exact opposite way. And do you know, you got to watch that too. Cause new leaders coming in, want to completely uproot everything, but they don't realize that there's a lot of history there.
So you have to kind of like onboard them in a way. That's like, okay, these are the things that we've done. Not just yesterday, last year, but for the last 10 years. And they might see actually they're suggestion has been tried, but it doesn't mean you can't try it again because it's a different group of people.
It's a different environment. So everyone needs to be able to listen and open and consider, it's an active, alive organism, you know, that's moving. So.
Luisa: I think that concept is one that I have definitely struggled with and I feel is so critical, it's like so hard, to come into a space and like, I've definitely had conflicts with people where, you know, talking about how to lead a team and talking about like, okay, well that's already been tried.
Well, this is a new group of people, like it might, that tactic might play out differently. I'm trying to find ways to encourage, knowledge sharing and to encourage more, collective talking and recording of stuff.
So like, everyone's kind of on the same page. It's not just the leaders making decisions behind closed doors and gatekeeping that, that information like becomes truly like team decisions and, and team ownership and stuff. So it is also reassuring to hear that it happens on truly every team, every sport.
Tulsa: Yeah.
Dominique Fontenette: I think that's huge. What you just said is that ownership, it's easy for people to be like, well, the leadership said that do this. And then in the end, it's all the leaderships in the, but I feel like a really good team is when everyone feels some ownership and in doing so you still have to have some boundaries and some rules, or else no practice will ever go past everyone talking at the same time.
So you still have to have those systems in place there's time. But you know, like. certain players on our team are way better at playing personal defense than I would say, even our, no offense, Andy, but like even some of our coach or might know. And I think it's okay to take that player and say, Hey, we would love it.
If you kind of gave a little seminar at this practice when we start doing this drill, you know? So it's like that player now feels ownership of our personal defense and, it's all for the better of the team. I mean, just so everyone feels ownership because that's how you get that moment of buy-in when everything's on the line at that, you know, universe point, you want every player, every, even the player never stepped foot on the field. You want their engagement.
Luisa: Yeah, that affirmation also feels like it's really good for the confidence building that you mentioned earlier. I think that's something that I've definitely noticed it can be really easy for new players to be like, Holy shit. I don't know anything.
I have so much to learn. Everyone else here is better than me, but it's really often that a new player can come into a team and have already like so much history, so much stuff to share. And sometimes it requires that little bit of affirmation for, for that confidence building.
Look at, look at you, you joined how many amazing teams and as a rookie, and you're trying to find your role and you clearly have like so much to bring to, to the field and same thing with you, Tulsa, like joining Brute Squad for your first year.
So it's like even new players can, can bring in something to, change the team and, and make the team their own and things like that.
Dominique Fontenette: Yeah, there's there's on the flip side. There's also that humbleness that I think somehow the leadership needs to embrace or instill as well as like, even though. Yeah, as say, say you joined the team and there's like an old guard there, and then you're a new player and you might be more athletic, can jump higher.
I've joined the team where I was like, I probably faster blah blah, blah. But in that heat of the moment, I might not be the player that they put on the field and knowing how to justify that and be okay with that and trust the leadership to be doing what they need to be doing, despite what I might personally think is also really critical because, it has a lot to do with, trust, the trust from the players perspective, but also trust from the leadership and the whoever's calling subs perspective that, you know, even though that player might not be the like tit for tat best player in the game or the team or whatever, but for whatever reason that coaching staff, that leadership staff has trust in that player because of whatever history of performance that they want that player on the field at that moment and being okay with that, because that at that moment is not the moment to like have an ego trip, and.
You know, I guess there's no real good time to have an ego trip. I think the only time to really like address those emotions or those feelings is months before at the first two months of practice before you even start competing is like to demonstrate and earn your trust of the leadership.
So, as much confidence building as there is and things to do, you also, the flip side is that those, those players also need to have responsibility for their own ego. I think that comes and drives nails in the best teams is when players have an ego that supersedes what might be best for the team, but their perspective of what's best for the team might not be the same perspective as what the leadership is.
Oh, Frisbee!
Luisa: Yeah, I think those are like really incredible observations and it almost, it almost sounds like it's not about taking all of these lessons that have that have allowed teams like Brute Squad and Fury and riot and Molly Brown and everyone else to find success. It's like, yes, those lessons are probably indicative of something, but it's also more about, um, the relationships of the people on the team.
Like recognizing the strengths, the weaknesses of the individual players that make up the machine. How to keep people humble, how to keep people confident, uh, how to keep people team first is, a super delicate balance and a recipe it feels like we're all still trying to perfect.
Tulsa: Totally.
Dominique Fontenette: A hundred percent.
Tulsa: Yeah,
Dominique Fontenette: Man. How many national championships would we have? If we could just figure out the right recipe!
Tulsa: Yeah. Yeah. So I was, I had a question and we don't have to get into this if you don't want them. But when you were talking about how one thing that's unique about right, is like rent builds the people, not just the team, or I guess, works to develop individuals in addition to just athletes on the field. To put it
Dominique Fontenette: I already, I already know what your question is going to be.
Tulsa: I think people talk a lot about like the success of a team based on how many national championships a club team has won. And I think right, it has won one in the past bunch of years. So what, I guess, what thoughts do you have on that? And is that a fair measure of success and yeah, I don't know any, any thoughts you have there?
Dominique Fontenette: That I think you're asking a question that I've often thought about is like, what, why do we keep losing the last moment? You know? And that's one perspective, right? Because someone else's perspective could be like, wow, you guys make it to the semis every time. That is the most amazing thing.
Right? Like a lot of teams don't do that. A lot of players don't do that. So it's like, first of all, that perspective as what, why do we keep losing, you know, it's a total, what do they say? Like the, the silver medalist is often the happiest person on the podium or something like that. I don't know
Tulsa: Least happiest. Yeah.
Yeah.
Dominique Fontenette: or
Tulsa: You're so to winning, but you don't. I
Dominique Fontenette: yeah, It's a, it was like, there's this, I dunno what it is, but, um, but I think it's all perspective.
So for years, personally, I was driven just to win first place and I still am on a lot of levels, but as, as an aging player in the game and seeing how things have evolved and, even the sport itself, I'll go off on that tangent in a second. But, you start to value different things, you know, like, so like as a teammate, I might've valued just that performance player before, but now I value the player who somehow knows and has an uncanny way of knowing exactly who needs to be talked to at a moment.
Like, uh, we have a player, Molly McKeon, who, I don't know what it is. She just like, like hyper aware in some way, but she knew exactly when to tap someone on the back and be like, Hey, you got this, that kind of stuff to me, you start to notice and start to value. Uh, so like if it ever came down to choosing a team between two equal performance players, I'm going to pick her because she has this other knack that keeps the team together in a way that's a huge.
So in that same light. I started to value, that those more interpersonal qualities on the team that were in contrast and contradicting my personal, like what I had grown up with this performance, demanding, everything everyone had and I come to Riot and they're like, it's okay to miss practice for a personal reason.
And I was like, what? Like, no, why, why would you be okay with this player missing practice? They like, they need to study for our test and why put these should have studied like three months ago before they should have preferred. Like, I saw them on Instagram, out with their friends the other night, you know, why didn't they?
So that's where Riot comes in hand. They're like, no, it's okay to have balance. It's okay to like, make space for that. And have I become a better person? Yes. Playing with Riot, like, um, I'm still a really bad listener, but I'm a better listener. Uh, and so I don't know if it's like a justification for quote unquote losing those games or it's just what it is is that Riot does spend a significant amount of energy developing that side of the player. And I think, you know, and people would also disagree with me say this, but I think it has affected the on field effectiveness, both in a positive and in a negative way, you know, like, could we have taken those extra hours and like honed in some, something? Yes. And might that have made the difference between a national championship and a second place. Yes. Maybe, but now I understand how my teammate is affected by me making a joke about something that's offensive to them. And I didn't understand that before, you know, and that is something that has made me a better person.
So I don't know how to, how to put it on this scale, but, it has had an effect on me and I think it has an effect on the team in a very positive way, and also potentially in a negative way, if you're accounting, national championships, or maybe not.
Tulsa: Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, it reminds me, I pulled this quote from the piece that you wrote, you wrote understand that you are not your performance and you are not your result. And I think that's an important piece. I've been thinking a lot about like athlete identity and how, especially in, we can get into like your retirement from playing, but especially how, when athletes stop playing their sport, they, they sometimes are at a loss of like who they are because being the athlete has been such a big part of their identity.
So I think it's, yeah, I think it's a question of what is, what is your measure of success and is there only one way of measuring success? Because if you look at, you know, how you're developing players for off the ultimate field or after ultimate careers, then it's a lot harder to measure that success as either there's not metals there, but it's interesting to think about.
Dominique Fontenette: Hmm. Quite quite interesting, I think. I remember a moment at our last nationals. Um, like personally I had a kind of like nationals and the way I qualify that to myself as like how engaged was I? Did I make any unforced errors and, uh, like little things on my personal level. And I had, in one game two drops, which is bad for an offensive line cutter who doesn't touch the disc that often, like my job is to catch the disc period. So, after my drop and there, there was a lot of things that contributed to the drop. It wasn't just my drop, obviously like certain things happen, but I, I dropped it and my teammate Bailey Zahniser.
She just, you know, this is like, now we have to play defense, but she just looked at me and she goes, that doesn't define you, define you. And I don't know, is this like a moment where I was like, yeah, ah, you know, but it was like that doesn't define you. And I think I might've scored that point, you know, like caught the disc in the end zone that point.
But, um, but that was kind of like exactly. My point is like, no catch, no score, no drop really defines you. And, nor does any like entire Frisbee career.
Uh, and I think just to keep going back in history, I had. Started to define who I was with the sport of ultimate and being a performer, like a high performer in it.
Um, and I went, I was about to go to nationals. No, no, no. I was about to go to worlds with Fury because Fury one in 1999, and at that time they didn't have a national team selection. You just, whatever team won nationals would go to the worlds. And so the next year, half of my team's already in Germany and I was going to fly out like on a Sunday or, or a Monday.
And I went, one of my other friends was like, Hey, we're doing this, co-ed tournament at the park. Do you want to come play? And I was looking for workouts. Was like yeah, boom. I blew out my knee at the tournament. So I show up in Germany with a torn ACL and my team didn't even know it. Cause it was a time before like cell phones and all that stuff, believe it or not. But I showed up at the fields and I didn't know who I was there. I was like trying to help call lines and the, the observers on the field where like you're taking too long to get on and off the field let's at, we're going to ask you not to go out there and call lines.
And so I was like, Oh my goodness, who am I, if I'm not a Frisbee player. And that was a moment where I was like, this is not okay. I need to be someone independent of performance and sport. And it really does kind of get at you to think about who you are when you are detached from things that you start to attach yourself to.
[XIIC + XIID]
Tulsa: Can I ask how you shifted, who you define yourself as after that?
Dominique Fontenette: Sure.
Yeah.
I mean, I like went deep. I was pretty depressed. Like after that knee injury, I think, I ended up like looking to outside sources, reading books and trying to go there with it. And I ended up taking some kind of, I don't know, I call it cultish, but some, some self development classes, to deal with it and then, uh, getting into different philosophies.
And I mean, I really, kind of went deep to try to do that. And I'm still every day, you know, deal with, especially in retirement, it's like, if I'm not doing this all the time, every, you know, for nine months of the year, then who am I? What am I doing? So it's like a constant project of thinking of trying to like, keep, keep a sense of who am I?
And, and it, again, I think it just boils down to who, who am I is just whoever I decide to be that day and that moment. And, uh, right now I'm deciding to be someone who's, loving to my family and my partner. And, this moment trying to be someone who, can maybe open a door or like give a perspective that might help someone else like.
So, so who I am is every day, something new and whatever I decide that moment, I think.
Tulsa: That's really cool. Yeah. Thanks for sharing. I like that. Being whoever you are in that moment, in that it can shift.
Luisa: I feel like it takes a lot of, self-confidence to be able to say, like, this is who I'm going to be today. And. I'm going to define it on my own terms.
Maybe as some sort of closing thing is there any message that you'd want to share with the ultimate community at large and ultimate community that's close to you? Um, any sort of wrapping thought, I it's such a shame to have to end it. I feel like I could ask you a million more questions, but maybe as like for just tonight to,
Dominique Fontenette: When I come to New York, we'll we'll go have drinks. Um,
Luisa: Amazing.
Dominique Fontenette: I think, I think like keeping people open, you know, open to other perspectives to other people's perspective, cause it's so easy for us to go through our worlds and just see everything from our own lens and our own perspective.
And, you know, I have to think about this every day that I go to work. It's like, I walk into this room with someone who's having like the worst day of their life, because they're in the emergency department for whatever reason. And they might be angry at me or they might say something, you know, but I have to remember to be kind and to take everything from their perspective is like, like they're having a really bad day and yeah, they're taking it out on me, but it's really my responsibility to not react and to just understand their perspective and say, okay, what can I do to make it better?
And I think that takes that I have to remind myself of that every day. And I think on the field and off the field, that would make a lot of situations a lot easier when we're coming at it open to other people's viewpoints.
Luisa: It sounds like absolutely, uh, a facet of spirit of the game that you've had to navigate, in ultimate. And it sounds like in, in your work as well, so a little bit of crossing over of, of identities and, personas.
Dominique Fontenette: Yeah, I think kicked in the face before, by someone on the stretcher. And I'm like, they didn't mean that.
Tulsa: It's not personal. Yeah.
Dominique Fontenette: that's not personal they're, having a bad day.
Tulsa: Yeah. That is such an important reminder and so hard, like you said. Yeah. But the compassion key.
Luisa: What do you hope is next for ultimate and the ultimate community?
Dominique Fontenette: I hope that in our strive for legitimacy, that we continue to be that sport that is so welcoming and, that builds people up and shows them how to negotiate conflict in a way that, doesn't peg the other against, against you. I think that whatever we become, that's just, that would be my one request cause that's the part that I think, made the sport so welcoming and it draws in people who I feel like are such awesome people on this earth.
Tulsa: Yeah, I agree. The second part of that question is what's next for you, which may be a little intimidating.
Dominique Fontenette: No, I don't know. Today I went rollerblading, uh, fancy that, I think it's like a day by day thing. I think COVID really threw some, you know, I was, I was retiring in a sense before COVID or trying to, but still in the back of my head was like, well, I still kind of like, you know, maybe I'll, but just COVID happened. And, put a nail in that decision to stop playing and, kind of reorganizing what I do on a daily basis.
Cause that was a lot of time and energy I put into playing and staying fit and things like that. Like I still am figuring it out and I'm still like reconnecting with friends and it's kind of like a day by day thing. So what's next. I don't know, but I hope it's exciting.
Tulsa: I guess off of that, in our conversation today, I can tell you're very thoughtful, like a very thoughtful leader and you know, a ton about the sport. From our conversation, I believe you have a lot of skills that would make for a really good coach. Is that something you've ever thought about?
Dominique Fontenette: I've thought about it and, have dabbled in coaching here and there. Coaching has been on my mind and I would love to be good at it. And I know that it's going to be a lot of work and I don't know if I'm ready to put it in yet. I think I, I wanna like have some space from the game a little bit so that, I can kind of reestablish a balance outside of ultimate again, and then come back to it and hopefully not have lost, too much in in that time. I think it's kinda like, uh, it's kinda, I don't wanna say this in a negative way, but it's kind of like a breakup when you break up with someone and then, but they want to be friends.
Tulsa: Yeah.
Dominique Fontenette: I need a little space and then we can be friends again.
Tulsa: Yeah. That's a great analogy. Yeah..
Okay. So our game, because we're competitive and we like games and we assume that most people, we talk to also like games. Our game is called ten second stall. You'll have 10 seconds for us to ask the question and for you to answer the question and we'll just kind of go like rapid fire through the questions. And if you hit 10 seconds without having answered, then we'll say "stall".
What teammate do you want on the line with you?
Dominique Fontenette: Molly Goodwin.
Luisa: Who is the hardest matchup you've ever had, guarded or being guarded by?
Dominique Fontenette: Oh, oh, Miranda Roth.
Tulsa: What's the best tournament.
Dominique Fontenette: Oh, Kaimana back at the polo fields in Waimānalo.
Luisa: Best tournament, party,
Dominique Fontenette: Kaimana, Waimānalo,I mean, that's the reason it's the best tournament..
Tulsa: What's your favorite tournament? Location?
Dominique Fontenette: I'm just kidding. Oh man. Oh, uh, Italy, the whole country of Italy, period.
Luisa: Favorite post tournament meal.
Dominique Fontenette: I mean, just even some miso soup would be good. That's like just salt and water and deliciousness. Easy on my tummy.
Tulsa: If you can only have one throw what third you pick?
Dominique Fontenette: Step around backhand.
Luisa: Best play you've ever made.
Dominique Fontenette: Um, well it was the best play that didn't get credited for the best play, but I like. There was a blading forehand, or someone threw a blade. And I literally dove and stopped the disc from hitting the ground, like volleyball style, bam. And it bounced up in and I caught it, but the observer didn't see that.
So it got ruled a turnover when it went to the observer and I was so mad because I know that that was a cool play.
No one knows it, but me.
Luisa: A book. podcast, or TV show rec.
Dominique Fontenette: Ha um, well, I just read this. There's a philosopher named Eckhart Tolle. And any book on his list? I think the Power of Now, or now, or something like that is pretty cool. That's one.
Tulsa: What's your current favorite song?
Dominique Fontenette: Current favorite song? EH!
Luisa: A self stall.
All right. Um, if you could play any sport with any professional athlete, who do you pick?
Dominique Fontenette: I would probably play soccer because I just think soccer is really cool sport and I would play back with, no, I think I'd play tennis with Serena Williams.
Luisa: Yes.
Dominique Fontenette: Yeah.
Tulsa: Pick one of the three: burpees, pushups or Pull-ups
Dominique Fontenette: Oh my god, I hate them all. Uh, pushups.
Tulsa: That's it.
Luisa: That's 10 second stall.
Tulsa: One self stall!
Dominique Fontenette: Good. One self stall.
Thanks you guys. That that was fun to talk and I thought there's some really thoughtful questions I appreciate you give me the ability to look back on my career and, appreciate that.
Luisa: Absolutely. We really appreciated you agreeing to talk with us. And as I said before, I think I can, I do have about a thousand more questions to ask you about everything else. So I really appreciate you taking the two hours to talk with us. Thank you for being on Share the Air.
Dominique Fontenette: Thank you both. I'll be watching Frisbee and I'll be watching your teams. So you'll have a, you'll have a fan now.
Tulsa: Thank you.
[outro music starts]
Luisa: Thanks for listening. And we'll see you next time. If you like the podcast and want to support us, here are a few things that you can do.
Tulsa: You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook @ theairpodcast and on Twitter @sharetheairpod.
Luisa: You can also rate and review us, and most importantly, subscribe to our podcasts wherever you listen.
Tulsa: Lastly, if you want to get in touch with us, you can email us at team@sharetheairpodcast.com. We'd love to hear from you.
Luisa: Thanks so much for listening.
Tulsa: Share the Air is recorded and edited by Tulsa Douglas and Luisa Neves. It is planned and produced by Tulsa Douglas, Luisa Neves, and Tim Bobrowski.
Luisa: Share the Air's music is by Grey Devlin and Bonus Points. Finally, thanks again to our sponsors, NUTC and VC ultimate.